The Acting Chairperson (Myrna Driedger): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This section of the Committee of Supply will be considering the Estimates of the Department of Energy and Mines. Does the honourable Minister of Energy and Mines have an opening statement?

Hon. David Newman (Minister of Energy and Mines): I do.

The Acting Chairperson (Mrs. Driedger): Please proceed.

Mr. Newman: Madam Chair, I am pleased to present the 1999-2000 Estimates for the Department of Energy and Mines. This mission of the department is to foster investment in the sustainable development of our energy, mineral and petroleum resources and promote the efficient use of energy. We are striving to create the best social, economic and environmental conditions by stimulating investment in our mining, petroleum and energy resources to the benefit of Manitobans. As well, our aim is to become the most energy-efficient province in Canada.

The past year, however, has not been an easy one for the mineral and petroleum industries. Low commodity prices, exploration companies experiencing difficulties in obtaining financing, and foreign market crashes continue to hamper industry on a global scale. It is important to recognize that these global effects are being felt here in Manitoba, most notably in our mining communities.

I want to take a moment to emphasize my high regard for these communities. The task of meeting the challenges of today's mining industry has resulted in a mining workforce that is more skilled, more broadly experienced, and more qualified than was the case a generation ago. These strong-willed, self-reliant people are the backbone of the mining industry. They are willing to work through the challenges and make a commitment to building and sustaining both their industry and their community, communities such as Thompson, Flin Flon, Snow Lake, Lynn Lake, and Leaf Rapids in the North, and Bissett in southeastern Manitoba.

It is during times like these that government and all industry and community stakeholders must remain positive and focus on what we do best to see us through these difficult times. More than ever, it is critical for government and other stakeholders to join forces to create win-win partnerships that will keep us competitive.

Partnerships are fundamental in how this department does business. Our partnerships with stakeholders are based on an open-door policy both with my staff and myself. We are not afraid of criticism and we welcome suggestions.

I encourage the outlook and practice of flexibility and good faith over the long term. These are essential, fundamental components in any partnership. If we give a bit here, bend a bit there, and keep our eyes fixed on the benefits of establishing and building relationships, we will achieve the win-win solutions we need to produce continued prosperity in the mining industry in partnership with communities committed to its good health.

I would like to share some examples, Madam Chair, of how we have created a positive business climate in Manitoba for investment by the mineral and petroleum industries. These are the messages that I believe are of great interest to the companies we want to attract to Manitoba and to those already here.

Over the past 11 years, our government has been driven by three guiding principles to help achieve success: first, our fiscal and economic agenda, culminating in the 1995 balanced budget legislation and five consecutive balanced budgets to the present day; second, the long-term investment in our social agenda is intended to decrease dependence on government; third, the commitment to the sustainable development of our economy through a balanced approach between environmental protection and economic development.

We are committed to designating areas for environmental protection while at the same time celebrating economic development opportunities to serve current needs without jeopardizing the needs of future generations.

I think you will agree that our most recent budget reflects our commitment to build a positive environment in which to do business. On the tax side, this budget extends Manitoba's overall major tax freeze for a 12th consecutive year. As we know, responsible management and competitive taxes have built a strong and diversified economy. Achievements in the past mean that Manitoba is well poised to meet the challenges ahead. We have overcome a legacy of deficit financing and high taxes to enjoy several years of steady growth and the lowest unemployment rate in Canada.

In addition, cuts to personal and business taxes make Manitoba one of the best places to live, work, and invest for the future. Small business income tax rates will be cut from 9 percent to 5 percent by 2002 to help small companies expand. An Equity Tax Credit will be introduced as a further incentive to invest in Manitoba companies and create jobs.

Manitoba's personal income tax rate will be cut by 3 percentage points by January 2000 to put more money in the hands of Manitobans. A 2 point reduction of the mining tax rate to 18 percent is an added incentive for companies striving to remain competitive. A motive fuel tax exemption is now in place for vessels refuelling at the Port of Churchill.

A two-year extension to the Manitoba Drilling Incentive Program allows a tax holiday on the production from new oil wells and qualifying wells where a major workover has been completed. Royalties and production taxes charged on new oil wells have been reduced by 14.5 percent and 44 percent respectively.

On other fronts, Workers Compensation rates are declining and remain competitive with the rest of Canada. Our 1999 rates were reduced by 24 percent. This translates into $1.48 million in savings for the mining industry. More specifically, aimed at the mining and exploration industry, we have continued with a focused investment strategy that is consistent with what industry tells us is important to them.

Madam Chair, I would like to touch on the five points of that strategy. First, a competitive cost of doing business. A company's rate of return on investment is a bottom-line factor in any decision to locate or remain in a particular jurisdiction. Besides the many initiatives announced in this year's budget and other tax incentives already in place, we have taken another significant step to keep Manitoba competitive through funding of over $9 million in mineral exploration and development incentives over the next three years.

Here is how those funds will be allocated: $8.25 million is being used to extend the Mineral Exploration Assistance Program, or MEAP; $375,000 has been designated for the Manitoba Prospectors Assistance Program to encourage exploration for mineral deposits by prospectors in Manitoba; $500,000 has been put towards the Specialty Minerals Incentive Program. This is a two-year program intended to help companies evaluate the economic potential of specialty mineral deposits and market those resources more effectively.

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Thirdly, certainty of land tenure and access. We understand the importance of land access and land tenure to industry. As Minister of Northern and Native Affairs, I have direct involvement in First Nations land claims. Our government inherited long-standing obligations respecting aboriginal and treaty land entitlement, or TLE, and settlement of issues arising from flooding of the lands of five northern First Nations. That, of course, is relevant to my responsibility as the Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro.

Also related to land access, we continue to work with the World Wildlife Fund and the mining industry on the Endangered Spaces campaign to balance environmental and commercial needs. Our approach is being recognized across Canada. In a speech given in the spring of 1998 to the Canadian Institute of Mining and Metallurgy, Monte Hummel of the World Wildlife Fund Canada said that the best approach to implementing the Endangered Spaces campaign largely embodies principles suggested by Ed Huebert, president of the Mining Association of Manitoba. These were that all discussions should take place in the context of a partnership based on trust and understanding; that relationships should be ongoing; that difficulties and tough decisions should be viewed as challenges that can be overcome rather than obstacles which are insurmountable. Hummel used Manitoba as a model of how the mining industry, government, and environmentalists are working through the process.

Fourthly, a transparent permitting process. We continue to revise our legislative and regulatory procedures to make them more responsive to industry's methods of operation. I should add that these changes are made after extensive consultation with industry. Manitoba's permitting process expedites projects from exploration to production smoothly and efficiently and provides fixed time frames for application and review, ensuring efficient progress for projects.

The Mining Association of Manitoba believes that our regulations and administrative procedure are the most efficient and effective in this country. They appreciate the regular consultation they were given on regulatory reform. They are impressed by the fact that in about half a year we can complete permitting that takes some provinces years to finish. We are proud to be a leader in this area. This illustrates our government's commitment to cut through the red tape at every stage of a project.

Fifthly, productive relationships. The "Manitoba approach" is based on a willingness to work with all stakeholders to build win-win partnerships to achieve our exploration and mining goals. A good example comes to mind in a meeting I had several months ago in my office with the chief executive of Inco Manitoba together with the president of the Steelworkers local in Thompson. I was tremendously excited, especially as a former labour relations attorney for 28 years, especially excited because here we had union and management talking from the same page and working with government seeking ways to ensure the future viability of Inco.

Another example of a win-win partnership is the working group of industry, government, and aboriginal representatives. Its purpose is to establish guiding principles that facilitate relationship building between those involved or affected by mineral activity in the province. The principles reflect a commitment to building and sustaining positive, long-term relationships between First Nations, the Metis nation, Northern Association of Community Councils, and the mineral industry in Manitoba. The partnership will benefit from equity in community and decision making and the creation of new opportunities for sustainable growth and human development.

These are five areas where government can make a difference and contribute to a healthy, sustainable mineral industry. Evidence that we are on the right track comes from feedback from the industry itself. In the Fraser Institute's most recent survey of mining and exploration companies operating in North America, Manitoba is rated amongst the highest in terms of mineral investment attractiveness. Our province ranks second in Canada and fifth among all North American jurisdictions.

Madam Chair, I would now like to turn to the individual branches of the Department of Energy and Mines and give an overview of accomplishments from the last year.

The department has two divisions: Administration and Finance, and Energy and Mineral Resources. The Administration and Finance Division comprises the executive and financial and administrative services. The Executive Branch, which encompasses my office and that of my deputy minister, provides policy direction for the department along with overall program management. Financial and Administrative Services, which comprise the assistant deputy minister's office and that of Administrative Services, provides leadership, policy direction, and centralized management services for the entire department, including financial, human resource, and computer services.

The greatest challenge facing Administrative Services is implementing an integrated business solution chosen by the government to bring our human resource, purchasing, and financial systems into the next century. In addition, the branch has been implementing the government-wide desktop management initiative and is reviewing and testing all existing software to ensure year 2000 compliance.

Before moving on, I should mention that we made four senior management changes in the past year. Garry Barnes, the previous ADM, is on an extended leave of absence; Bob Dubreuil, Director of the Petroleum and Energy Branch, is now the acting assistant deputy minister; Christine Kazycki and Craig Halwachs have been have been confirmed as Director of Geological Services and Director of Financial and Administrative Services, respectively; both were formerly in an acting capacity. In addition, with the retirement of Art Ball in December of 1998, Ernie Armitt has become Director of the Mines Branch. John Fox is now Acting Director of the Petroleum and Energy Branch.

On the Business Development side, the branch provides ongoing service to mining and exploration companies operating in Manitoba and to those that are considering coming to the province. Staff provides technical and business advice and acts as a liaison between clients and other government departments. Over 500 contacts were recorded in the last year alone. Through participation on government industry committees, staff also monitor and provide ongoing input into a variety of issues that affect investment. Issues include taxation, land access and tenure, permitting, and improved communication with First Nations.

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Three mining projects were granted new mine status for mining tax purposes: Harmony Gold, Bissett Gold Mine, and Hudson Bay Mining and Smelting's Chisel North project and the Triple Seven project. These mines are exempt from mining tax until profits, before any deduction for depreciation, exceed the total cost of new mine capital assets acquired before the start of commercial production. As partners in the Manitoba Potash Corporation, Potamine Potash Mining of Canada and the province hold development rights to potash resources in the Russell-Binscarth area in southwestern Manitoba.

A strategy for the sale of the assets of the Manitoba Potash Corporation was developed in co-operation with Potamine and is now being implemented. The branch has been promoting Manitoba's mineral properties with a listing of 35 properties on the properties available for option website and in the hard-copy publication listing. Through the department's information distribution channels, property owners are given global exposure. This is also an important service for exploration companies not familiar with Manitoba's mineral properties.

The Marketing Branch has emphasized working with Manitoba's mining communities with regard to a number of mining related resolutions put forward by the Manitoba Chamber of Commerce. I might say as a past president of the Manitoba Chamber of Commerce, needless to say, I have considerable respect for the thought they give to this in the public interest.

In terms of recognizing target areas for the Mineral Exploration Assistance Program, we increased available assistance for the Lynn Lake and Leaf Rapids regions to help focus more exploration attention on the vicinity of these communities. Assistance has been increased from 25 to 35 percent on approved eligible expenditures.

Madam Chair, I am very pleased that our mining communities have seen the merits of partnering with government and industry in promoting Manitoba's mineral investment opportunities. In this way, Team Manitoba was created. This concept evolved through open dialogue between Manitoba's mining communities and mineral property owners and my department and was first tested in November at the 1998 Manitoba Mining and Minerals Convention in Winnipeg. Here over 40 property holders and the towns of Flin Flon, Snow Lake, Leaf Rapids, and Lynn Lake took advantage of this opportunity to meet with members of the minerals and exploration industry from all over North America and promote the Manitoba advantage.

A more formal Team Manitoba presence was organized for the 1999 Prospectors & Developers Association of Canada Convention in Toronto in March. Along with Energy and Mines, the team comprised the mayors from the mining communities of Flin Flon, Snow Lake, Thompson, Leaf Rapids, and Lynn Lake. It also included the Manitoba-Saskatchewan Prospectors & Developers Association, which represents northern property holders, and the Manitoba Prospectors & Developers Association, representing southern property holders.

Speaking of conventions, despite the global downturn in the industry, more than 700 industry stakeholders met in Winnipeg last November to discuss mining and exploration opportunities in Manitoba at the Mining and Minerals Convention. The convention theme, Facing the Challenges, was very appropriate. I am confident that much interest in Manitoba and many business opportunities were generated. The convention provided a venue for the industry to learn of the latest geological information releases, exploration and mining services, and business opportunities. The 1999 convention will take place November 18 to 20 at the Winnipeg Convention Centre. I encourage all in the Legislature to attend.

I would like to turn briefly to our highly successful MEAP program. During the 1998-99 fiscal year $4.5 million of assistance funds were allocated under MEAP to companies proposing 71 exploration projects. This seed money helped stimulate a total of $17.7 million in proposed industry exploration expenditures. The total assistance paid since MEAP's inception in 1995 is $6.9 million, representing 160 completed projects. During that period, 60 companies have received funding, with 30 of those new to Manitoba. Under MEAP's three-year extension, the first offering of $1.1 million took place on April 1, 1999.

Turning to information, production, and distribution, 11 geological reports and 42 maps were produced. Over 2,000 technical reports and maps were disseminated, along with a variety of marketing publications promoting mineral investment. The department's library responded to 1,200 reference and research inquiries, processing 151 interlibrary loans, and ordered 113 publications and periodical subscriptions.

The Internet is increasingly being used as a tool to disseminate general information to industry clients. Visits to our website have increased to over 12,000 per month from under 1,000 a month when the site was first established. The website was developed for two reasons: first, to provide global access to information on our products, programs, and services; and second, to promote energy efficiency and alternative energy initiatives and investment in Manitoba's mineral and petroleum resources. The site now has accessed searchable databases such as the Mining Claims Registry, Petroleum Branch Crown Land Lease Holders database and Geology and Petroleum publications database.

Clients can order publications or register for our convention online. They can download maps such as the Manitoba Land Access Map for Mineral Exploration, or view mineral properties available for option or investment. They have access to permit and program application forms, mineral claims information, acts and regulations. This speaks to our drive to make as much information as possible available to our clients in the most effective manner.

Strategic advertising and promotional activities were undertaken to promote mineral investment. These included ads promoting the Manitoba mining advantage, the convention and business development events, and departmental programs. The branch also worked closely with industry on a number of detailed editorials that highlighted the Manitoba advantage in a variety of industry projects. These included Rock Solid for Manitoba Business magazine, a feature article in the Canadian Miner, 1997 and 1998 issues of the Manitoba Mining and Exploration Review in collaboration with the Manitoba Prospectors & Developers Association and Naylor Publications, and the Canadian Mines Handbook.

The branch is also providing opportunities for the mining communities to take advantage of our information distribution network. Initiatives include community focus sections developed for our Manitoba Exploration News, community contact information and our Manitoba mining and exploration directory, community brochure and promotional literature distributed by Energy and Mines, and community contact information on the Energy and Mines website.

Madam Chair, I would now like to turn to the Petroleum and Energy Branch. The mandate of the branch is to foster the sustainable development of Manitoba's oil and gas resources and promote investment and the efficient use of energy and the development of economically viable alternative energies in Manitoba

Last year the world's oil and gas industry was plagued by low prices. This resulted in a severe curtailment of oil and gas investment in Manitoba. However, I am happy to report that oil prices have begun to recover to levels sufficient to support a reasonable level of investment in our oil patch. The recent increases in oil prices are driven largely by a decision by OPEC members to curtail production. The gradual recovery of a number of East Asian economies is another factor fuelling the price recovery. Many analysts are predicting that industry has weathered the worst of the low oil price storm.

Three assistance offerings under Petroleum Exploration Assistance Program were made during the past fiscal year. They attracted 41 applications, which resulted in 36 applications approved and 19 completed. This accounted for $2 million in exploration expenditures. With the impending expiry of that program at the end of '98-99, the branch undertook extensive consultation with the oil and gas industry, including an independent client survey, and this was for the purpose of determining whether this was the best use of money to induce investment into the province.

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As a result of this consultation, and having regard for recent initiatives announced by Saskatchewan and British Columbia, we have implemented a new oil and gas fiscal regime. Crown royalty and freehold production taxes for new vertical wells drilled after April 1, 1999, are reduced by about 14.5 percent and 44 percent, respectively. As a result of these changes, Manitoba has regained its competitive advantage in attracting oil and gas investment and stands well positioned to take advantage of strengthening oil prices.

The branch promoted Manitoba oil and gas investment opportunities at a number of fora throughout the year, including the International Williston Basin Horizontal Well Workshop, the Manitoba Oil Show, where we acted as primary organizer and co-sponsor, industry-government round table meetings which we hosted, and the Canadian Association of Petroleum Landmen Conference.

Madam Chair, information is the lifeblood of the oil and gas industry. Increasingly, if a jurisdiction wishes to attract new investment, that information must be available digitally in a convenient format. For many years, the branch has been developing and digitizing well information, and '98-99 was clearly a breakthrough year. Staff were successful in reaching an agreement with geoLogic Systems that has resulted in the inclusion of Manitoba oil and gas well information in the company's popular GeoScout software.

In addition, internal access to the software is allowing the branch to increase the effectiveness of its geological and engineering assessments and streamline technical input into regulatory activities. The branch has also developed a relationship with CDPubco, making data available to its clients. In return, the branch gains access to the CDPubco software package.

On the environmental side, lower tax prices have led to a number of small oil operations becoming marginal or uneconomic. Often, an operator with limited resources may be unable or unwilling to take appropriate steps to mitigate environmental concerns. Under The Oil and Gas Act, the minister may order the Director of Petroleum to seize the well or facility to take remedial action. Madam Chair, you can appreciate that this drastic action is taken only after an operator has repeatedly failed to take corrective action. Under these provisions, the director has seized a small operation consisting of four wells and a battery. After attempts to identify a responsible operator were unsuccessful, the branch initiated operations to abandon the wells and battery. This process illustrates the measures the government has taken to ensure public safety and environmental protection even in difficult times.

The branch continues to participate with Manitoba Environment in extensive air quality monitoring in the Tilston area. The results indicate gas flaring at oil and gas facilities are not hurting local air quality. The branch is looking at alternatives to gas venting and flaring, with a view of identifying feasible mitigating measures such as use of waste flare gas for electrical generation. Also, staff will continue to diligently deal with potential orphan well situations in a manner that minimizes safety and environmental hazards.

Climate change is one of the most important issues facing society in the years ahead. Evidence is mounting that emission of greenhouse gases, largely resulting from our continued use of fossil fuels, is having a measurable and possibly accelerating effect on our global climate. The international community has recognized the dangers inherent in climate change through a protocol among developing nations achieved in Kyoto, Japan, in December 1997. Under this protocol, Canada has agreed to limit emissions of greenhouse gases to 6 percent below 1990 levels by the time interval 2008-2010.

A national process has been established to develop a plan to achieve this quite aggressive target. The process consists of a number of negotiating tables, each of which will examine potential measures related to a sector of the economy and propose mitigative solutions or actions. Specifically, Manitoba is involved in the electricity table, the buildings table, transportation table, and agricultural table. In addition, Manitoba is represented on the analysis and modelling group, a team that is charged with the critical task of rolling up proposed measures from the various sector tables into a national plan.

Given our abundant renewable and environmentally benign hydroelectric capacity and the potential to expand renewable energy production, such as a fuel like ethanol, we recognize considerable opportunity for Manitoba and the climate change debate. We have made a number of proposals on the national stage that have garnered considerable support from other provinces. We will continue to put forward ideas and concepts that benefit Manitoba and help Canada meet its international commitments.

On the energy side, the branch operates programs designed to increase the efficiency of energy use in Manitoba. Noteworthy is the Manitoba R-2000 program. A total of 44 homes were enrolled under the program in 1998-99, up from 34 in the year before. For this fiscal year, we are targeting at least 55 new enrollments. Highlights for the year include the completion of four units of a 19-unit condominium project in Souris and the enrollment of a new R-2000 home as part of the West Broadway renewal project.

One of the most effective means of providing information on residential energy efficiency to Manitobans is the Home Energy Saver and New Home Workshops conducted by the branch. In 1998-99, Madam Chair, 241 people attended the 23 workshops held throughout the province. Participant evaluations have consistently been very positive.

Madam Chair, I would like now to turn to the Mines Branch. Its main responsibility is to administer legislation governing the disposition of mineral rights. This encompasses permits, claims, leases, the exploration and development and production of our nonfuel mineral resources and rehabilitation of mines and quarries.

The branch administers The Mines and Minerals Act and The Mining and Metallurgy Compensation Act, as well as regulations on quarry minerals, mineral disposition and mineral leases, drilling and the new mine closure regulation. The mine closure regulation came into force on May 25, 1999. It will ensure that mine closure and mine site rehabilitation are effected by industry in a standard, responsible, environmentally acceptable manner, and that mine operators will provide sufficient security when they submit the closure plan to pay for all the rehabilitation costs.

As well, plans for closure and rehabilitation of existing mine sites are required. We consult regularly with Natural Resources regarding protected lands. Digitizing of claim maps for the entire province will be completed this year. In 1998, Madam Chair, 571 new mining claims were staked, and one exploration permit recorded covering an area of 159,126 hectares. In addition, 26 quarry mineral releases, 794 casual quarry permits and 690 registrations for private pits and quarries were issued.

Madam Chair, our government is strongly committed to the rehabilitation of depleted aggregate pits and quarries consistent with the principles of sustainable development. A unique program has been established under The Mines and Minerals Act in consultation with the aggregate mining industry to deal with this problem. It is funded through an annual rehabilitation levy, collected on the basis of aggregate production.

Since the program began in April 1992, we have undertaken over 634 projects, rehabilitating more than 2,700 hectares at a cost of $4.7 million. This land previously disturbed by surface mining and depleted of economically valuable aggregate mineral has been restored from a derelict state to a condition that is safe, environmentally acceptable, and productive to society.

Mines Branch inspection staff administer the program, as all of the work has been carried out through private contractors. Madam Chair, 166 projects are already pending for the 1999 construction season, and new applications to have rehabilitation work done continue to be received as public awareness of this program increases.

In the past seven years, the Prospectors Assistance Program received 255 applications, of which 199 were approved. To date, 153 have been completed at a total cost of $657,860. The program allows up to $7,500 for each approved project following a survey by an independent consultant. In 1998, it has been decided to extend the program for three more years at a funding level of $125,000 a year.

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Finally, Madam Chair, I would like to provide an overview of the activities of the Geological Services branch. As I mentioned earlier, a key to our mining and investment strategy is providing current and relevant geoscience information that supports the minerals industry and contributes to sustainable development and wise land management.

To support this objective, our geological programming balances support for established mining camps, stimulating new exploration and development opportunities in the frontier areas, and supporting land use development priorities in southern Manitoba.

Madam Chair, our programs incorporate a regional emphasis focusing on those areas most in need of new and/or updated geological information. Generally, they are designed on a five-year cycle allowing for rotation in areas of specific focus while maintaining continuous improvement of geological information. Within a 20- to 30-year period, it generally reflects advances in technological development and scientific thought.

Collaborative initiatives are a key element in Manitoba's geoscience program. These projects draw on the collective expertise and resources of various government, university and industry organizations. They make possible technology transfer information exchange while at the same time augmenting the geoscience database for the province. Over the next two to three years, collaborative projects with the federal government, industry and several Canadian universities will provide expertise and opportunities for technology transfer with direct operational expenditures averaging about $1 million a year.

In established mining camps, our work focuses on improving understanding of the regional geological controls that influence the occurrence of known mineral deposits and developing new exploration tools to assist exploration in these areas.

Madam Chair, the Shield Margin NATMAP project, which focused on the Flin Flon-Snow Lake greenstone belt is now complete. A complete set of colour maps and accompanying marginal notes was released in November, and the final release of digital data sets and maps and CD-ROM is scheduled for later this year. Results from this project have shown that not all volcanic assemblages within these types of greenstone belts are equally endowed with massive sulphide deposits. This type of information provides a very powerful tool into finding new areas of mineral potential.

Techniques derived from working in the Flin Flon belt are being applied to other greenstone belts across the province in order to update our level of understanding of their geology and mineral potential. In the Lynn Lake-Leaf Rapids region, a reanalysis of archival sample sets will allow updating of existing mapping by incorporating new concepts regarding volcanic assemblages and potential for volcanogenic massive sulphide deposits.

This summer we will conduct new on-the-ground mapping primarily along the western extension of the Lynn Lake belt. This will focus on upgrading the level of structural information as it applies to evaluating the potential for gold mineralization in the region. We are also working on upgrading the level of geochronological data for the belt and contained mineral deposits.

Madam Chair, these studies are critical to establishing the timing and lithotectonic setting of key mineral deposits and provide a framework for focused exploration elsewhere in the belt. The existing one to 50,000 scale maps are being digitized and will incorporate new geological information and provide a framework for portraying new geological concepts and re-evaluating mineral potential in the region. Much of this information should be available for preliminary release at the Mines and Minerals Convention in November.

In southeastern Manitoba, mapping projects continue in the Wallace Lake and Bird River areas, with a particular focus on developing exploration models for platinum groups products in the Bird River area.

In the Thompson area, a study of the geology, metallogeny and tectonic evolution of the Thompson nickel belt is the subject of a four-year investigation administered and sponsored by the Canadian Mining Industry Research Organization. This project began in 1997 and will extend until 2001. The study will integrate existing mining company data and government records with a wide range of new data sets and represents the first major integrated study of this world-class mining camp. The program, directed by Energy and Mines, will develop new exploration tools that will yield long-term benefits to nickel explorers in Manitoba.

We are working with Inco, Falconbridge and Hudson Bay Exploration and Development to produce a new set of one to 50,000 compilation maps for the Thompson nickel belt. Under a memorandum of understanding, these companies have given us access to confidential information that will enable a thorough re-evaluation of lithology and stratigraphy along both the exposed and sub-Phanerozoic portions of the belt.

In frontier areas of Manitoba, work focuses on defining new exploration targets as well as upgrading the geological framework for more focused exploration initiatives in underexplored areas. To this end, our five-year Northern Superior initiative now entering its fourth year has been linked with the federal Western Superior NATMAP program. This program will produce improved understanding of the tectonic assembly of the Superior Province.

In 1999, the very successful multimedia geochemistry project will continue in the southern Knee Lake area. Results of last summer's work will be released in July in time for explorers to develop follow-up programs in the 1999 field season. Bedrock mapping and mineral deposit studies will continue in the Gods Lake and Max Lake areas. In this matter, I would like to mention that the Max Lake work in part is being carried out in a region under hold for land selection by the Norway House First Nation as part of the Northern Flood Agreement and should serve to facilitate wise land management decisions in that area.

Recent studies along the northwestern margin of the Superior Province northeast of Thompson suggest a major reinterpretation is required for the location of the Superior boundary zone in this area. Further south, this zone is known to host the Thompson nickel belt. This work being carried out with researchers from the University of Alberta will have a significant impact on exploration in the region as it will delineate new zones that should have potential for nickel mineralization.

Geological Services is also developing new exploration and development opportunities in southern and central Manitoba. Previous work in the Mafeking area suggested the potential for previous unrecognized metallic deposits hosted within or beneath carbonate rocks overlying the Churchill Superior boundary zone. Further review has identified basement structures along this zone which likely reflect basement reactivation, pointing to the potential for as yet an unidentified lead zinc and/or gold mineralization. More work is planned over the coming year to further evaluate these observations.

In southern Manitoba we are contributing to a number of federally sponsored programs focused on resource evaluation and land management such as aquifer mapping and evaluation of magnitude and frequency of Red River flooding. The latter project is being funded largely through the federal Red River flood protection program. For the Winnipeg area, the first phase of the Capital Region study is nearing completion in July. In this effort, crushed stone, dolomite, dimension stone and other potential industrial and metallic mineral resources were inventoried to provide a framework for effective regional land-use planning. Preliminary maps released in March were well received by heavy construction and industrial mineral client groups.

Over the past year, assessment of aggregate resources consisted of evaluating wildlife management areas that are under review for inclusion in Manitoba's network of protected areas. When this project is completed, our attention will turn to updating aggregate resource inventories throughout the province, emphasizing those areas in most need of new aggregate supply. Plans for this fiscal year include work in the Rural Municipality of Ochre River and the greater Winnipeg area.

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With respect to information production and distribution, numbers of reports and maps produced by Geological Services Branch during 1998-99 has been summarized previously. The branch is also currently in the process of developing digital data distribution mechanisms both via the Internet and CD-ROM. Over the past year, we have released three CD-ROM products which provide clients with direct access to databases in mapped format. We have also completed georeferencing of the Manitoba bibliographic database which contains location and distribution of all maps and reports available from Energy and Mines. This database is currently accessible on the Canadian geoscience publications directory website. The department has also acquired an Internet map server which allows maps to be published to the Internet. Clients do not require any software other than a web browser to view and query maps. The software is currently undergoing in-house testing and development of data sets. When placed online, it will provide access to mining claim information, geological maps, mineral occurrence data in mapped format and will link site location with detailed databases.

That concludes my introduction, Madam Chair. Thank you.

The Acting Chairperson (Mrs. Driedger): We thank the minister for those comments. Does the official opposition critic, the honourable member for St. James, have any opening comments?

Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St. James): Yes, Madam Chair.

The Acting Chairperson (Mrs. Driedger): Please proceed.

Ms. Mihychuk: I want to thank the minister for the comments and his extensive review of the department. There are some areas that I wish to explore, but before I go there, I would just also like to express my concern about the mining communities and the mineral industry, which is facing unprecedented low commodity prices and has been felt through the communities, through businesses, through families and to the workers themselves. We have seen layoffs in Thompson; we have pending closures of mines at Lynn Lake and Leaf Rapids. Thompson, in particular, is coming to the end of their financial commitment for the school division and the city. That will have an impact on every taxpayer in Thompson, and they also are planning an extended shutdown.

But I do know that the workers in the mines have been co-operative both in Flin Flon and Thompson and in Bissett, that this is typical of miners and their willingness to work through the tough times. As well, special recognition should be given to the families that also must adapt. Many of the families will move into a community, establish relationships in hope that their stay in those communities will be long term. Not only is it upsetting to the miners themselves, but the consequences of layoffs or shutdowns is felt through the families to the whole community. So our thoughts and concerns are for the mineral industry and those miners who are facing the commodity-price situation head on. We do hope that Manitoba recovers quickly and that we can expand the number of positions in the work force in the mineral industry.

I want to put on the record my appreciation for the work that Garry Barnes has done for the Department of Energy and Mines. Garry came into the department when I was in the civil service and working in that department. I have a high regard for his ability, and I know that he will be missed in the department. Garry was an asset and had a long-term knowledge of the department and the people that worked there and a sincere concern for those in the department. So we wish Garry all the best in recovering from his unfortunate illness and that he will be coming back. I understand from the minister's comments that he is on a leave of absence, and perhaps in time Garry will be returning.

I also wish to explore some of the issues related to the claim staking scandal or the claim staking issues that have arisen from the recent Mining Board hearing. It is our understanding that there are a number of claims in question, that there is some suggestion that this type of claim jumping and inappropriate activities are fairly widespread. I am going to be asking the minister to provide information in that area. This is, I believe, the result of not having sufficient staff in the area of ensuring regulations are adhered to. So we will be exploring that whole area.

Indeed with the knowledge that there are few if any inspectors out there to check your claim posts, it is little wonder that we have seen this unfortunate incident in the prospecting sector come forward at this time. There is an onus on behalf of government to ensure that things are being complied with according to The Mines Act, and it can lead sometimes to the staking of claims more by paper than actually in the field. That is why I have been calling it backdoor paper staking. It has not really been an official policy of the ministers. When individuals who perhaps are not as forthright and concerned about following the law are able to perhaps use other measures than going out into sometimes very remote, very difficult situations to do the claim staking, they will take those advantages. That is why it is so important to ensure that we have the proper staffing levels and that we are indeed checking these situations.

I know that many companies and individuals spend a considerable amount of money supporting their claims and their claim blocks, doing the required work, and then to find that the claims have been improperly staked falls onto the registered owner of those claims, and there is very little way to regain your interests. So we have a number of questions in the whole regulation and Mines Branch sector when it comes to the mineral industry and claim staking.

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We are also going to talk about the minister's commitment to the five strategies that he outlined in some detail, the MEAP programs and the accountability. It seems that the minister has tried to provide some field observations or inspections, but if I understand from the minister that it is a geological sciences person, my concern is that we are robbing Peter to give to Paul, because our second goal is the geo-science database. That is an area that I would argue is not wanted to be tapped into. In fact, it is extremely important to industry to have a strong geo-science database. I am concerned that the level of support for that sector has not been sufficient, that the supports in terms of staffing and in particular operations side may not be in sync with rising costs.

It is particularly costly to go into undeveloped regions. Particularly I am talking now about the superior province where helicopter support is necessary and remote outrigging and outfitting of those base camps requires additional funding. I see that that level of support for field expenditures has remained fairly stable, which means that the money must be coming from somewhere else or we have to reduce the amount of field time that individuals are out in the field.

So those are areas that I am concerned about. I do wish to find out the status of the Cross Lake mineral deposit and whether we have seen any advances in the development of that mineral potential. We look forward to a substantial breakthrough so that we can go ahead with this project and provide meaningful employment and opportunities to the people of Cross Lake. I am sure that they will come from Norway House and surrounding areas. What types of programs has the minister initiated to anticipate this mineral development in terms of training and education? Is the workforce prepared? What type of infrastructure may be necessary? Is this project moving ahead or is it unfortunately stalled as it seems to be at the present time? So we will be very interested in that and in getting an update.

I would also be very interested in finding out the status of any potential development, new sectors or renewing old potentials, and I want to hear about the silica sands at Black Island. At one time we had Dow Corning involved. Is there any potential there? We have had other industrial minerals, and I am pleased to see that the minister has expanded the incentive program to include other minerals that do not sparkle or gleam but do have an important economic component to Manitoba's economy. So there is money available for industrial minerals and other minerals, and I congratulate the minister on recognizing that that is an important sector, but I would be interested in hearing whether there is some potential economic spin-off of some of these deposits that maybe we know about already.

I am also going to be discussing the Marketing Branch and look forward to hearing more about the climate change project, what the minister is doing in terms of promoting the sale of hydroelectricity across North America. Are there any potential long-term commitments which we could develop and of course enrich our economy as well as provide a clean and safe energy source to the people of North America? And so I am looking forward to going through Estimates in some detail, and that concludes my opening comments. Thank you.

The Acting Chairperson (Mrs. Driedger): We thank the critic from the official opposition for those remarks.

I would remind members of the committee that debate on the Minister's Salary, item 23.1.(a), is deferred until all other items in the Estimates of this department are passed.

At this time we would invite the minister's staff to take their places in the Chamber. Is the minister prepared to introduce his staff members?

Mr. Newman: First the member of the female gender is Christine Kaszycki, heads Geological Services branch; Craig Halwachs, who is administrative services; and John Fox, who is the acting director of Petroleum and Energy.

The Acting Chairperson (Mrs. Driedger): Welcome. The item before the–

Mr. Newman: In case there is a question where the deputy minister is, the acting assistant deputy minister and the director of the Mines Branch, they are all engaged in a meeting out of the city of Winnipeg at the present time. The Estimates were called on very short notice, so they were unable to return in time for it. But, in the public interest, we wanted to proceed in a co-operative way, by agreement, as quickly as we could. So these people are standing in today on their own. Thank you.

The Acting Chairperson (Mrs. Driedger): Thank you and welcome. The item before the committee is item 23.1. Administration and Finance (b) Executive Support (1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $275,900. The honourable minister, for any comment.

Ms. Mihychuk: I see under Executive Support there has been a change, a drop actually, and under Financial and Administrative Services a significant increase. I am looking under 23.1, page 17 of the Estimates book.

Can the minister perhaps outline these changes?

Mr. Newman: The differential, I am advised, is, in increased ways, the reflection of the continuing obligation to pay Garry Barnes, who is the assistant deputy minister and is on a leave of absence because of the state of his health primarily, and his administrative support position continues in the employ of the department. The other portion of the increase is explained by the general increases in the civil service positions relating to administrative services and merit increases as well. There was a lesser payment in terms of the deputy minister's salary because Oliver Boulette is at a different level from the level that Michael Fine was at.

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Ms. Mihychuk: Can the minister perhaps indicate how long the department is committed to maintaining the former ADM's salary?

Mr. Newman: The former ADM, Garry Barnes, who is on leave of absence, his leave of absence is expected to end upon his expected retirement at the end of the fiscal year.

Ms. Mihychuk: If I understand the minister correctly, that would be next March, so he would be on leave with pay for how long? I do not recall when Mr. Barnes was forced to leave the department.

Mr. Newman: Mr. Barnes, during the period from May 3 of this year until the end of March 2000, will be consuming his accrued sick leave and vacation credits and so forth. That represents the cost during that period of time. As I said, we expect, unless there is a very substantial change in circumstances, that he will be retiring at the end of March. And I might say that Garry is a great loss to the department. He has done an outstanding job in even added responsibilities under considerable stress, on more than one occasion rising up to be acting deputy minister in circumstances. So we miss him greatly and wish him well.

Ms. Mihychuk: One of the areas that I raised last year and is still a concern to me is the lack of, I guess, expertise in the mineral sector of your senior staff. Besides the director of Geological Services, other members of your senior staff are, I am sure, quite competent and experienced, however lack that type of experience in the mineral sector. I think that it sends the wrong signal. The minister has a deputy minister who is shared by two departments. I think that we have seen perhaps the emphasis of the minister and the deputy minister in the other department, and that the mineral sector at this time is going through some very tough times. Would it not seem to the minister appropriate to have a senior staff member focused on dealing with the mineral sector and the mineral industry at this time?

Mr. Newman: I do not have any material reservations at all about having people whose expertise is in management, in serving in a progressive way within the civil service, having demonstrable human relations skills and being an aboriginal person who has an understanding of the aboriginal people and is respected highly by them serving as deputy minister in the department. I, without equivocations, say that, in my opinion, it is better to have someone with those kinds of qualities and those kinds of credentials and accomplishments in the position at this time in the history of the province of Manitoba.

In terms of other nonmining technical people within the senior management of the department, I believe that one of the attributes which they share is an appreciation of the need to seek expert guidance from technical people of the appropriate specialty at appropriate times. My experience in life and as a human resource lawyer for 28 years is that putting faith in technical people, whether it is a doctor or a lawyer, to do management tasks is sometimes not a good use of the training they have received.

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But the concerns about having people who have relevant and recent experience with the industry, I think, is a valid point and that is why in the selection of the replacement for Art Ball as the Director of Mines, Ernie Armitt was hired effective February 11, 1999, and Mr. Armitt came to the department from INCO, where he held the position of manager of engineering technical services and maintenance, and he was involved for long-term and strategic planning for the division as well as the responsibility for administering the capital plan. He was also responsible for INCO's contract administration for the division, including the 1956 agreement between INCO and the province. In addition to management training, Mr. Armit holds a degree in civil engineering, University of Salford, England. At the time, as you pointed out in your introductory remarks, the present maximum viability of INCO in Thompson and region is a challenge. I cannot think of a better person to have in this position at this particular juncture of our history

So I do not have any personal discomfort or expressions of external discomfort that have been brought to my attention about the composition of the people in the department. I am very proud that the department is being managed in such a way that a John Fox can step in as an acting director, that a Bob Dubreuil can move upwards and be an acting ADM in his area, and that we have been able to utilize the kinds of attributes they have in that portion in Bob's transfer over to ADM or promotion to ADM not only for Energy but also for Mining. I think it is a very relevant kind of experience, and the skills learned there can be of great advantage likewise in the mines side.

Ms. Mihychuk: Can the minister explain if we are covering the total cost of the deputy minister's salary in these Estimates, and is this department covering the total cost of the deputy minister? If so, why?

Mr. Newman: The answer to your question is yes. As I explained at great length last year, this is how we do it. After giving serious and in-depth consideration to your expressions of concern about this last year, it is being considered a matter of such great moment that nothing has been done about it. It is not regarded as a significant issue but just an administrative accountability kind of thing.

We operate in a way that is very holistic between the different areas of responsibility and that, rather than being a weakness, is a strength, and to break it down effectively you would almost have to have timekeeping like I used to do as a lawyer and break things down into tenths of an hour. It just would be regarded as a less than maximally productive use of time to do that. So the decision of management, the decision of the people responsible for administration, the people responsible for accountability, have recommended that we do as we have done over many years when we have had combined departments under one deputy and one minister and not change the present situation.

Ms. Mihychuk: Can the minister inform us how many vacancies and secondments there are in the department?

Mr. Newman: While my staff are getting me details on that, I just wanted to make sure there is no misunderstanding in your mind. When I said the status quo prevails, that means that we split the minister's salary in a 50-50 way between both departments; that is, the minister's cost to the departments; 50 percent goes to Energy and Mines and 50 percent to Northern Affairs. So implicit in what I said, that continues as it is, and the deputy minister's treatment is, as I have stated, charged to Energy and Mines in full.

Ms. Mihychuk: Well, as the staff are looking up I will just respond to the minister's comment. I appreciate that the minister's salary is split between two departments. The issue here is that one department is covering the total salary of the deputy minister, which is a significant expenditure. If we looked at half of that, perhaps one more additional geologist could be deployed or a mines inspector could be hired to check some dubious claim staking, and there could be some important work done which I think needs to be done.

I am quite confident that the deputy minister is doing good work. However, in terms of accounting I think it would just make it a clearer item to identify that the deputy minister is actually shared between two departments and not as the Estimates book may indicate, a full-time position in Energy and Mines, that indeed that position is half-time. I understand that the minister has addressed this with senior staff and has decided to leave it in this book. We just choose to disagree on how that should be accounted for, and I just put my comments on the record so that there is clarity in that that one position is actually, in theory, supposed to be 50-50 between the two departments, and I would just like to make that point.

Now I have the information about vacancies. There are three vacancies in Petroleum, two in Geological, one in Marketing, one in the Mines Branch and there are three secondments, one to Better Methods and two to Service First.

Ms. Mihychuk: What impact do these vacancies have on the budget? Their salaries are allocated and the positions are vacant, and what impact does that have on Estimates in the ultimate functioning of the department?

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Mr. Newman: The short answer is that the intention is to fill all of those positions in one way or another, meaning that, for example, the vacancy created by John Fox's elevation to an acting capacity replacing Bob will be filled by a term position until things sort themselves out. Another example is all of the other ones are in the process of being filled with permanent positions, and the Mines Branch position is well advanced in the hiring process. That is the mines inspector position. Similarly, the Geological Services vacancies are well advanced in the hiring process. There are actually interviews tomorrow.

Ms. Mihychuk: What plan does the minister have to comply with the government's stated goal of targeted reductions in the civil service? If I recall correctly, it was 5 percent. I may be wrong, but if the minister would remind me of the–I believe it was cited in the throne speech that the government plans to reduce the civil service. I would be very interested in how the minister is going to approach this goal, what sectors of the department are going to see the reductions, and how are we going to manage with even a smaller staffing component? Are any of these vacancies going to be part of that reduction?

Mr. Newman: I would want to check the throne speech to make sure I was exactly right, because it was a percentage which I think was different from the one you cited, and I think it was over a fairly long period of time. But we, as a directive and me as minister, have no directives, no guidelines that impact on our department at this time. So I would have no knowledge to share with you.

Ms. Mihychuk: The minister indicated, when he talked about the recruitment and selection of individuals, that the Mines position was the one inspector. Is the minister indicating that his intention is to hire one mines inspector or is he increasing it to two, which I was led to believe would be the situation?

Mr. Newman: We are in the process of hiring the one. We have a contractual arrangement with a contractor to perform inspection services. Whether or not the position would actually be filled or whether it would be a contracted-out kind of situation has not been finally determined, but it is being worked out by administration.

Ms. Mihychuk: Well, would it be reasonable for the minister to review the staffing components of the branches, with the goal of perhaps looking at modern trends or pressures as we promote more exploration. We are also encouraging more and more prospecting, which I applaud. Now, given the situation in southeast Manitoba, I do have serious concerns about the staffing levels in the sector of inspection. Given that we have vacancies in the department, perhaps not traditionally in slotted branches, may be an opportunity to look at some reassignments of those positions without affecting individuals who have the position itself.

I would urge the minister, through my comments, we are quite serious, having Barry Jahn, who was the former claims inspector, living in The Pas, who I hear did a very, very good job, was just overwhelmed with the amount of work and responsibility that one individual had, including the responsibility of all quarry inspections for northern Manitoba–I just find it very difficult to understand how we would make a commitment to looking at one position, and urge the minister to take this opportunity of having several vacancies to perhaps recommit or re-evaluate his position or the department's position and ensure that indeed we are going to solve this problem and get on a more stable footing. That is going to require additional supports. It was very difficult to get Barry Jahn, when he was our claims inspector, to come down and check mining claims down around Sarto or Bissett. It is a long way to go. Transportation is an issue. Timing is an issue.

I urge the minister to look back historically when Manitoba indeed had two mines inspectors. Even then, perhaps there was some argument that that was not sufficient. Would the minister consider reviewing the staffing components of the branches in the department, given today's situation overall? I am not just talking about this one specific incident of the claim staking, but the priorities may be different now than they were years ago.

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Mr. Newman: My deputy minister has the responsibility and is directed to make sure that we have the right balance of inspectors, claims inspectors, and to ensure that the standard of claim staking is generally acceptable to the industry. When I use the term "balance," I mean it is both having inspector involvement and having a responsibility which is induced and ensures a higher degree of self-responsibility by claims inspectors. That is the area which you and I have discussed in Question Period over two or three different days.

I can assure you that, again, the direction I have given is that I want to send out a strong message to the industry that claim-staking offences will not be committed with impunity and that there will be an accountability for it. That is why we are waiting for the Justice department's opinion and guidance in that respect. But that is certainly the direction.

To the extent that the deputy minister is satisfied that that kind of creative tension will bring about results without having legal inspectors, if you will, doing the work. That, we believe, is the better way to go because the philosophy which is governing these kinds of decisions is that we do not want to be unnecessarily watchdogs to ensure compliance with the law, which is what we are talking about. We would rather create a climate where people do not risk breaking the law. So the recent example–I have given a very clear direction that I want a very strong message sent out to the people involved in the claims staking industry generally that this is a very serious matter which should be dealt with very strongly.

Ms. Mihychuk: Just an administrative issue. I hope the minister continues to allow this type of back-and-forth discussion about fairly wide ranging–I know that we are a little bit off. We could probably discuss claims inspectors under the Mines Branch and probably go there in more detail but just as general topics come up, we have, in the past as well, been fairly open to that, and I appreciate his co-operation in that sort of range of discussion.

One of the major initiatives that the government undertook last year was desktop management. Can the minister indicate the cost of that program, the total cost? I know that it has been itemized under various branches. What is the cost of that program and the general feedback from staff members who use this new approach to technology? Are they satisfied with the service? I understand that there have been numerous problems. Have those problems been rectified? Is this, overall, something that has been an advantage or has it been a disadvantage to the Department of Energy and Mines?

Mr. Newman: First, dealing with cost, the number of units involved is 144. The cost for the fiscal year is $362,200. The feedback from two different kinds of perspectives, one from labour savings, is that it frees up the time on several basis of the people that are involved so the desktop kind of time consumption is replaced by capacity to do other things in relation to the computers at their disposal and a very rough evaluation at this time, which is simply anecdotal, not measured, I am advised would free up at least a staff year.

With respect to the quality, I am advised because of the greater capacity of these computers that it just allows more to be done with them, so there is a quality advantage and a time-saving advantage that has been discerned so far, and just from a point of view as a result of both of those things, a good feeling about them.

Ms. Mihychuk: Well, I would like to ask the minister if he has done any globetrotting and what conferences he had the opportunity to attend, and I do not mean that in a negative way. [interjection] Being a globetrotter is mostly to mining conventions, I am sure, and primarily in Canada. But I am interested in knowing where the minister has been and what the plans are for the upcoming year.

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Mr. Newman: I will first respond where I have been, and I do not think you are terribly interested in my trips within the province, but in the outside-the-province trips, April 23 and 24 I was in Toronto for a Ministers of Energy and Environment meeting; July 10 to 15 I was in Calgary for the Energy and Mines Ministers Conference; October 17 to 21 I was in Halifax for the Ministers of Energy and Environment Ministers Conference; March 3 to 5 I was in–the reason I hesitated there, I was wondering why on my trip to the new Nunavut I managed to get there and back from March 3 through 5 on $250 and discovered the department's presence was so advantageous that it was done at the expense of another department of government. That was the Nunavut trade mission, which I might say was a fascinating second trade mission experience for me in that area in relation to both hydro and mining and what that can do. It was a great opportunity, because we went immediately north of here to Rankin Inlet and to Coral Harbour on Southhampton Island and also to Iqaluit. So it was a very good exercise. March 12 to 18 I was in Toronto for the Prospectors and Developers Association meeting with Team Manitoba, and that is the total of my globetrotting for this past fiscal year.

In terms of the future, this fiscal year to come, just as last year it will be done strategically so that my presence maximizes the value to the advancement of the industry and the communities who have an interest in the advancement of mining and attracting mining investment. We are intending to expand the Team Manitoba concept because it was such a success. What guidance we get as to what would be a strategically advantageous thing to do as a Team Manitoba will guide us as to where we would go. At the moment I do know that, in the other area of climate change and the energy side, there is a variety of different things, which I am not sure if I should get into at this time, but whatever again is going to advance the interests of Manitoba's capacity to opportunities to export hydro power and to avoid negatives of reciprocal, negative reciprocity, and to advance ethanol, all of those kinds of things, will dictate again where we would direct our energies. I see myself as effectively the leader of that Team Manitoba, and I am the one that can open the doors, and that will be the primary influence, whether it is petroleum and energy, whether it is mines, whether is hydro.

Many cases, when we go on these trips, it involves all of them because we deal with them holistically. For example, when you go up North to Nunavut, we are building a good will relationship there. So we are investing in that relationship building, and we have achieved that in large measure because of our desire to look at potential land line to the Kivalliq region north of us and also looking at transportation connection, both of which would be enormous benefits to mining development there which then can be a benefit to our mining suppliers here and transportation industry and everything else. So that is how we approach it, and I do not at the moment have any specifics. I have no exotic trips, unfortunately, in mind for the next fiscal year.

Ms. Mihychuk: Can the minister indicate at this time if he has a vision for what he would like to do if the opportunity opened itself in the next year? What are the challenges and what accomplishments does he hope to promote or achieve during the next year as the leader of the department and his ability, as he says, to open doors? He talked about Team Manitoba. I think that was a good idea; it was successful and encouraged continued work in that sector. I look forward to hearing more about what the minister has as a vision for the future in terms of the mines industry and the mineral sector.

I am very interested also in the energy component, but perhaps we could talk about that when we get into the energy sector. I am sort of open to that, but I am tending to focus right now on the mineral industry because of the very serious challenges that it is facing right now. So I would be very interested in hearing what initiatives the minister is proposing or hoping to bring forward.

Mr. Newman: I am going to put this in the context of what is a holistic vision for all of the areas within my responsibility. It is really a way of thinking that goes to the year 2025. Whether it is dealing with the aboriginal population of the province, whether it is dealing with Energy and Mines, or whether it is dealing with hydro, the vision involves that sort of period of time. It is no coincidence that that coincides with the planned time period for the eradication of our accumulated debt in the province, which was a 30-year plan in 1995. So that is the kind of time parameters which any vision that I had responsibility for articulating has in mind.

The way that I test out any vision that I have, which I regard as tentative until the department as a whole and its leadership test the vision, is we do that through our business planning processes. The business-planning process for Energy and Mines is taking place next week, beginning next week, Monday and Tuesday. The way that I have become involved over the period that I have been minister in the two different departments has been to participate with an articulation of my tentative vision in a facilitated kind of environment with staff of the department. After articulating, I leave and give them a chance to develop a vision, bearing in mind that kind of idea, but in no way do I impose it. Then they hammer out what they think is effectively the plan for the year within the context of a longer-term kind of mission.

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The strategic plan and the five points of it, which again I dealt with at some length in the introductory remarks, have been modified, have been refined in this process as well. The piece that we are adding, which I am very determined to see come into fruition in the very near future, is the aboriginal mining protocol, as we have called it, because that will be a significant way of addressing the land access and tenure issues and may open up a lot of doors for potential exploration.

But, again, because we are taking a holistic approach, it is very important that the mining industry and hydro and even our modest oil-patch industry respect a socioeconomic objective of the province through our departments to achieve a higher level of participation by our disadvantaged citizens, who at the moment happen to be primarily aboriginal people. So there is a great and earnest effort through a long-term education strategy, a long-term health strategy, a long-term training strategy, a long-term employment equity strategy, to improve the negative statistics afflicting our aboriginal people to the provincial average.

From my vantage point, that is part of my vision for every one of those component parts of my areas of responsibility, and to the extent we can in win-win ways shared by not just civil servants, not just elected people but with miners, unions and business people who have to make a buck, we want to move forward with those objectives. The whole approach, as I have indicated in the introduction, is we find win-win ways to achieve those kinds of targets over that 25-year period.

Ms. Mihychuk: Can the minister tell us if he has had the opportunity to visit some of the field sites that I recommended that he do? Has he had an opportunity to go underground in an active mining operation or have you had an opportunity to visit a geological field crew in the summer, which I think would be very enlightening to anyone who has not had that experience? From my personal experience, I think a short-term visit is better than a long-time visit, but it is an eye opener to go and understand how the mineral industry works and where it all starts from, and that is right there in the field. So I would be very interested to know if the minister has had an opportunity to put on some boots and go out into the bush?

An Honourable Member: Darren has to take us along.

Ms. Mihychuk: Oh, and Darren took us along.

Mr. Newman: I have been underground in an active mining operation in Manitoba, and I have not yet had the great pleasure of being out in the field with explorationists, but I listen very carefully to all of the stories that I hear back from them. I read quite widely, but I have not yet indulged myself in enjoying that particular aspect of the mining industry yet. But if it rose high up in my priority list, I would jump at the chance to do it because then I would be able to justify it to the taxpayers as a productive use of my time, but at the moment I have not been able to do that.

Ms. Mihychuk: I am prepared to move on to the individual branches and get on with things.

The Acting Chairperson (Mr. Helwer): Okay, we were on item 23.2. (a) Marketing. Is that where we were?

An Honourable Member: No.

The Acting Chairperson (Mr. Helwer): 23.1. Administration and Finance (b) Executive Support (1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $275,900–pass; (2) Other Expenditures $74,800 for a subtotal (b) of $350,700–pass.

23.1.(c) Financial and Administrative Services (1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $810,100.

Ms. Mihychuk: I would like to ask a question on the staffing ratio in this component. I see that what looks as if an individual or a position has moved from Administrative Support into the Professional/ Technical area, because we have had the same total number of positions; however, it goes from three to four at the Professional/Technical level.

Can the minister enlighten us as to why we need additional professional or technical support in the Financial and Administrative Services?

Mr. Newman: The explanation for that is that the position formerly held by the director of Administrative Services, which was manager of Financial Services, was not filled. That was Craig Halwachs's position. Through some–he says juggling around–reorganization, a function dealing with business planning and the development of the annual report were addressed by personnel, whom you describe as technical people. One person filled those responsibilities.

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Ms. Mihychuk: I always try to, when I look at systems, focus on the job that we need to do, and it always concerns when I see a significant increase in administration costs. I guess at a time when we are looking at needs, our basic needs are, I think, outlined as the minister said: more support, more field programs, more reports.

How is it that the minister can justify increasing Administrative Services by what looks like over $180.000 at a time when perhaps more field personnel could be employed? I think priorities must be reviewed and ensure that, although business plans and those types of services may be necessary, I question it, given that we are moving to more and more supports in terms of administration. There are better methods, other systems programs, desktop management.

Would one not expect that the supports on Administrative Services would actually become less? Here we see a substantial increase in administration, and I will be looking into the department to see if this could not perhaps have been better employed by providing more service to industry and to the people of Manitoba.

Mr. Newman: The spirit of what you say I do not disagree with. As we move forward with better methods and find ways that we can reduce administrative costs, that will be done. The primary differential here is the creation of the ADM and administrative support positions within the department which again, when looked at holistically between all of the departments, means that there is an ADM now in the Energy and Mines area and an ADM in the Northern Affairs area both reporting to the deputy minister with the director of Native Affairs Secretariat reporting directly to the deputy minister as well.

So we now have a senior management kind of organization which is designed to overcome some of the new challenges that are being faced in fulfilling the kinds of missions or visions which I articulated. So the structure has changed, and we expect over time, through that new structure and better methods, we will be able to achieve administrative savings progressively over time.

Ms. Mihychuk: If we look at Schedule 8 which provides a good summary of the department, we have administrative costs of a million dollars and the budget estimate of $7.6 or $7.7 million. I think under anyone's estimate that seems to be swayed a little heavy on administration. If I recall correctly, in Education administrative costs were reduced to about 4 percent or 5 percent. I will be reviewing each branch as to their level of supports, because what we are dealing with here are highly trained, highly professional individuals who–if anybody can self-regulate, it is those professionals who are working for the people of Manitoba and, I would argue, require some administrative support. But in terms of managerial, I will be evaluating or critiquing or asking serious questions about the number of managers there are in a department, again with the view that let us get down to basics. Let us talk about what Energy and Mines is supposed to be doing, and are we putting our money in where it really matters? How is it that it seems so out of skew with $1 million spent on administration in a fairly small department which only has a budget of $7.7 million?

Mr. Newman: In response to your question, there are some points that I will make. The first is that the total departmental budget for Energy and Mines is, for the fiscal year to come, $14,630,000, not $7 million.

The second point is the deputy minister and assistant deputy minister are challenged to have a very efficient, well-managed organization without any fat in it. I entirely agree with you that the most important part of the operation is in terms of necessary results, at the moment is in the kinds of field work and the kinds of knowledge work that has to be done by technical people. In a modern-managed organization, there should be a lot of devolution of self-responsibility, so that is the general direction.

The other point I make is when you look at the departments which I have a responsibility for, you cannot measure them by the budgets in terms of their responsibility. I have addressed the very question you have raised in my own mind, and I think of it in the context of being a department responsible for a corporation, Manitoba Hydro, which has over $7 billion worth of assets and in itself thousands of employees, approaching 4,000 employees, has a debt responsibility over $5 billion and is one of the greatest earned potential business developers and climate change or addressing climate change issue agents by far that we have in the province.

The other area which involves a tremendous amount of responsibility but it is not reflected in dollars is the Native Affairs Secretariat which is the advocacy liaison and co-ordination group for aboriginal matters within the government. We have resisted any temptation to build our budget, but we have taken on a huge responsibility for strategic change within government and have led the long-term plan to 2025 throughout all departments of government in ways that address the challenges of aboriginal people in the province.

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The other aspect which grows out of responsibility for mining, hydro in the North, and aboriginal people is the enormous challenge which has occupied a huge amount of time of our ADM in Northern Affairs, Jeff Polakoff, has occupied a huge amount of time of the deputy minister, relates to the treaty land entitlement negotiations which is a huge project with many implications, the Northern Flood Agreement, huge implications, that is involving over a million acres of land and involves multimillion dollars worth of resources. It involves massive social change, socioeconomic change with the province, so put in the context of those kinds of responsibilities which are massive, I believe we operate in a very lean way. But we absolutely maximize the use of the deputy and assistant deputy ministers who are hands-on people in conducting these tasks, and even senior management play a far greater role in a hands-on way than in many other departments of the government. So I make, having thought this through, no apologies for it at all, and if anything, have grave concerns that we might not have the necessary capacities to do this up to the standard which I aspire to for the holistic challenges of my responsibilities in government.

Ms. Mihychuk: I guess just to clarify the record, I was looking at Schedule 8 which was salaries, so if we included the operating, it would be my understanding that the budget is $9.5 million plus the industry grant program which would bring it up to $14 million. Is that correct? So we are still looking at an administrative cost of approximately 10 percent, and like I say, I will be watching the administrative component, because sometimes it is very easy in systems to have administration grow, and we tend to lose focus. Having been very involved with education, and we had a series of significant cuts, it was clear that that was an area that we had to focus on first. You must look at priorities, and that was to provide service to children in that case, and in this one I believe service to industry and those involved in energy and mines, so I would still suggest that it seems a little weighty and needs to be monitored cautiously.

Mr. Newman: Because I feel strongly enough, I do not want you to go away with that view. You are entitled to hold it, but I am going to share more information with you, because if the worst possible thing happened and you were to be elected and came in and had a misunderstanding, I would feel that I was neglectful of my responsibility if I did not properly prepare you to do the job that I am trying to do.

But in the way that we are organized, I serve as a minister on the Economic Development Board, I serve as a minister on the Human Services Committee of cabinet, I serve as a minister on the Sustainable Development Committee of cabinet, I serve on the Round Table for Sustainable Development, I serve on the PLUC committee and then all of those kinds–and I am responsible along with six other ministers for the Children and Youth Secretariat. And the people that report to me, my deputy, the assistant deputies and the senior management all have responsibilities for not only Hydro and the Community Economic Development Fund in ways that I need some support, and I might say a very modest amount of support relative to the obligations. I extend them virtually to their limits to meet the challenges within government of these kinds of issues that cross departmental boundaries, and if you just think of the Department of Energy and Mines as specialist business departments, then you apply a management formula as to what percentage should be management, it just does not recognize the big picture, holistic role that is played by, as I say, the component parts of my responsibilities in government, which include Energy and Mines.

Energy and Mines is seen as a solution to far bigger issues than just the exploration and production of mineral wealth in the province. It is a means to practise sustainable development. It is a means to provide for the socioeconomic, improved future of aboriginal people. It is part of developing a healthier community. It is part of developing a better educated community. It is part of developing more self-reliant communities in the North. So I have no apologies to make for the positions or the amounts paid to the deputies, assistant deputies and the senior management people in my areas of responsibility. As I say, I think they are extended to their limits. Garry Barnes might very well be an example of the kind of conscientious people that we have who perform these functions in ways that I believe are an example to the whole civil service.

Ms. Mihychuk: Actually, in 23.1.(b), we were speaking of the minister's senior staff. That is the line item that includes the deputy minister. Does that also include the ADM?

Mr. Newman: The ADM is included as part of Financial and Administrative Services.

Ms. Mihychuk: Can the minister indicate who his staff members are in item 21.1.(b)? We have the deputy minister and his whole position in the line item. Then there is Professional and Technical Support. Could the minister indicate who that is? What special assistants are included in this line item, and who are they?

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Mr. Newman: The staff on the Energy and Mines payroll include 50 percent of my compensation: special assistant Jodi Turner; appointment secretary Darlene Hoffman; correspondent secretary Barb Robson; deputy minister Oliver Boulette; and appointment secretary to the deputy minister Linda Gibson. That is it.

Ms. Mihychuk: Thank you for that information. I think that it reflects the minister's priorities, and I am not here to criticize. It is interesting how ministers prioritize their areas, and this minister has put emphasis on northern affairs and native services, and it is reflected by his staff. I think that is an honourable thing and an important one, but one concern is that in the special assistants in the minister's office, again it just seems to leave a vacancy where previous ministers have had a special assistant from the mineral industry or from the mining community that could provide that kind of information for him. I am assuming he relies on the department and gets that sort of assistance, as he said previously, but I do appreciate the minister's putting on the record who is in the office. I think it is important to know who is working for the minister and appreciate that.

Mr. Newman: I must comment because you have made two statements that I do not agree with. One is suggesting that I put priority on Northern Affairs over Energy and Mines. As I have said repeatedly, I have a holistic approach, and that is an inaccurate comment for you to make. The second comment I take issue with relates to the absence of a technical person as a special assistant. I had a geologist as a special assistant, who has gone back to the industry, for my first year or so as a minister. I now have a person who is not a geologist whose concentration is on energy and mines and hydro and CEDF matters. That person, I can say without hesitation, plays as much of a quality role at least as the predecessor.

I learned that the expertise that is most relevant and useful in my position comes from members of the civil service with different experience and different expertise through my executive committee as I receive whatever I need in terms of briefings but very significantly from my many friends, acquaintances and respected people in the industry who never hesitate, when asked, to provide their views either through the MELC committee process. That is the industry liaison process through representation on the Mining Association through a person I have a great respect for, Ed Huebert, who is very knowledgeable and I have regular contact with. He never hesitates to phone me, and I never hesitate to phone him. The people in the industry, whether they are suppliers, whether they are CEOs, whether it is the senior person in Inco, the senior person at Hudson Bay Mining and Smelting, the senior person in any one of the exploration companies or any other mining operating companies, I have simply an open-door policy. I have no hesitation phoning them if I want guidance. I would either do it through senior management or through an ADM or a deputy, and if I want to do it directly, I do not hesitate to do it directly.

I also would not hesitate to pick up the phone and speak to the president of the steelworkers' union in Thompson to get that perspective. I think that approach is far better than having someone in the office as a special assistant to pretend to provide that kind of guidance under the label of being a technical person in mining. But if that person has the trust and confidence of those people to relay information to me when I am not available in confidential ways, has the intellect and the integrity to do that job well and knows the system of government, knows the organization of the industry, knows the people in the industry, that is what I look for. So I am very happy with the quality of the people I have, and in a considered judgment I am glad I made the decision that I did to hire the kind of person that I did to fulfill that function.

Ms. Mihychuk: Can the minister explain under line 23.1.(c), Financial and Administrative Services, the Managerial has four positions and four positions and 1998-99 it was 186,000 and this year we are looking at 286.9. Is that where the salary for Garry Barnes is included?

Mr. Newman: Yes.

Ms. Mihychuk: Thank you. The other question I have is under Administrative Support. We see that line which had 7.5 positions drop to 6.5, yet the budget item increases by $53,000. Can the minister enlighten us as to why we have fewer staff and so much more for salaries?

Mr. Newman: I am advised: because of general salary increases, merit increases and reclassifications that resulted in higher compensation costs.

Ms. Mihychuk: The minister commented in his response to one of my other questions that he would feel free to phone anybody in the mineral sector, and I am curious to find out how many times the minister has picked up the phone and talked to the president of the steelworkers.

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Mr. Newman: He phoned me, then wrote a letter to me, and as a result of that I met with him in his office in Thompson when I was up there for another conference. That was the restoration of the relationship which went back to my days as a labour lawyer. I bump into him at a number of different events where we have personal conversations, whether it is at a mining-related event or sometimes when he is with his wife at a political event, and we have just a very open dialoguing relationship. He feels free to approach me, and I feel free to approach him on issues.

I think I had one telephone conversation with him that I initiated relating to the meeting that we had, and he then came to my office with the president of Inco. We had a lengthy meeting about the future of Inco, and that would be my best recollection of the communicative contact that I have had in person and by telephone with Mr. Desjarlais.

Ms. Mihychuk: Well, I do not have any problem with that. I think it is a good thing to meet with all sectors, including labour and management. I am pleased that there has been communication with the workers who are trying to work co-operatively I think in Thompson's case and in Flin Flon and workers have given up considerable to ensure that those communities survive. Given the minister's history in another role, I think it is important to reach out to both sectors, and I am pleased with that. I do not have really any more questions under Admin Services.

The Acting Chairperson (Mr. Helwer): Item 23.1. Administration and Finance (c) Financial and Administrative Services (1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $810,100–pass; (2) Other Expenditures $175,200–pass. For a subtotal of $985,300–pass.

23.2. Energy and Mineral Resources (a) Marketing (1) Salaries and Employee Benefits.

Ms. Mihychuk: I do have a couple of questions in this area. This is one area that I would like the minister to perhaps give us an overview of his vision of this branch. There are three managers for eight professionals, eight and a half, and six administrative support. Now these people, if I know this branch, are professionals as well, and I am wondering if this might be a little top-heavy.

Why do we need so many managers for such a small branch?

Mr. Newman: The three managers are Jim Crone, who will be joining us at the table here, having returned from Thompson, manager of Client Services and manager of Business Development.

You ask why do we have management status for those three positions. The manager of Client Services, Monique Lavergne, has promotions co-ordinator, graphics technician, website co-ordinator–although that position is vacant–a couple of library technicians, desktop publishing assistant, and info distribution clerk reporting through her to the director, Jim Crone. The manager of Business Development has the Business Development officer, media relations, convention co-ordinator, Business Development officer, and information Business Development officer support person reporting through him to Jim Crone. The accounts clerk, MEAP co-ordinator and MEAP assistant all report to Jim Crone. He also has administrative secretaries. So that is seen to be an efficient and effective way of operating that particular clustering of functions.

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Similarly, he will be up in Cambridge Bay at a mining symposium with me and other staff members, trying to develop relationships with the mining people there. He will be relating to the Department of Education when you get a complaint from one of his clients who is a mining operator in the Bissett area, saying, you know, we are concerned about the quality of education in the area, or he will be relating to the Minister of Highways and Transportation as his counterpart in that department when there are problems with transportation for employees or transporting a product on our highway system.

So, although they perform a customer service, they function and virtually do whatever it takes to help induce investment in the province and an effective environment for conducting mining operations in the province, and they educate the public at large. They are very active participants in the development of our Mines and Minerals Convention, our highlight of the year, and one of those persons who is the primary organizer of that event, the media relations and convention co-ordinator, that is all about relating to the industry in North America and the world through Manitoba, so it is a very, very busy group of people that play very important functions.

Ms. Mihychuk: Can the minister tell us who the new business development manager is and what that individual's background and credentials are?

Mr. Newman: The new individual is the Manager of Business Development, Rick Halas. His background was with the energy industry, and in particular, Centra Gas. His discipline academically was economics and his work experience, which is very relevant here, is business development kinds of experience.

Ms. Mihychuk: Is the minister concerned that, given that the two individuals this one new person supervises are both very experienced, knowledgeable individuals. Is the minister concerned about morale in the Marketing Branch?

Mr. Newman: I am concerned about morale anywhere in the department. If morale is not positive and people are not excited by the mission and very strong and loyal members of a team working towards an objective, I am concerned. I have had no concerns expressed to me directly or indirectly about this, and if there were concerns, it should not reach me unless the concerns have not been addressed by the director Jim Crone. If he does not have a team that is functioning in harmony in those excited ways that I talked about, his job is to make sure they do. If he does not, then he is accountable to his boss, and ultimately if it comes up the line and I hear that there are problems within the department that people are not addressing so that we have an excited, loyal team, then redressive action should be taken.

Ms. Mihychuk: Were the two individuals who this business manager supervises given the opportunity to apply for that position?

Mr. Newman: I am advised yes.

Ms. Mihychuk: Can the minister tell us if those individuals did apply, and is it true that one of those senior members will be leaving the department soon?

Mr. Newman: My information is that Lyle Skinner did not apply, and my advice is that his intention is to retire in the near future at the appropriate time for him, and Gary Ostry, I understand, did apply for the job–I have just been advised of that–and Rick Halas was awarded the job.

Ms. Mihychuk: Why would the minister consider it necessary to have a manager over two individuals who are so professional, and does he not consider this to be top heavy? These individuals are basically managing a clientele that is also professionals, and they have worked independently in other sectors. I just would like to understand why we need another management position over two individuals who are professionals already, without sending a message that somehow there needs to be more control or there is even more bureaucracy. Over the past year we have now developed this new manager, and I would like to understand why the department felt that was necessary.

Mr. Newman: The role expected of the person holding that job title is to provide leadership and focus for that grouping of BDOs and the media relations and convention co-ordinators, so as I indicated, you have four positions reporting to the manager of Business Development. The other point I had already made is that this is a hands-on working manager, so the old-fashioned way of thinking of a manager is somewhat misleading, given this person plays like Lyle and Gary do, a business development officer function with assigned clientele.

Ms. Mihychuk: This is a branch that the government has created that has grown, I think, consistently over the years. We look at a budget item now of $1.3 million, so that is a substantial budget allocation. It is over half of what petroleum and energy, that whole branch, is. The expenditures here, I think, must be questioned and reviewed–$1.3 million in this sector. I would ask the minister if there has been a review of the effectiveness of the Marketing Branch and whether this is still a priority for this government?

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Mr. Newman: The people who are responsible to me for ensuring that we have efficient and effective departments have assured me this marketing area is not only valuable but increasingly valuable and necessary. The increasingly competitive world, all seeking the investment dollar in mining and energy, with the low prices and the challenges being faced by industry out there, they have really sharpened their pencils. They have really become far more difficult to attract to any particular jurisdiction, and loyalties to a jurisdiction do not mean a whole bunch. We are, through the marketing area, in very determined ways, trying to make sure that we are the most desirable place to invest in mining in the country, if not the world.

I, from my vantage point, have not had concerns about the performance of marketing because the results have been so demonstrably good. I rely on the kinds of articles which I read in different media, and I can assure you I do not rely on any of the articles that are written in the northern newspapers by the honourable member for Flin Flon (Mr. Jennissen), the honourable member for St. James (Ms. Mihychuk) or the honourable member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton), because they do a disservice to marketing. We have to spend an enormous amount of effort to try and overcome the negative publicity which is put out in newspapers in the North under the guise of being releases from the members opposite.

I have to spend time responding to this dissemination of negative information about mining exploration. I have to have letters to the editor written to clarify inaccurate information in these kinds of articles repeatedly. So the Marketing Branch has to not only overcome the negative history of the New Democratic Party, the official opposition party, when they were in government and what they have done to create a negative image for the province of Manitoba for mining, but day after day the Marketing Branch has to deal with the dissemination of negative and inaccurate information in news releases to the North, which are there for crass political purposes and nothing more.

The more that is done, the more need we have for people in the Marketing Branch to disseminate facts and disseminate the positive things about the environment here. You say, well, the official opposition has an obligation to be a critic. I think they have an obligation to disseminate the truth and constructively improve things but not to do what is done in many of these articles I read again and again in the newspapers of the North.

Having said that, I always have comfort when I read the articles put together by a journalist, Bill Redekop, about Manitoba: A Friendly Place to Mine. He writes a very meaningful article which is trying to educate the public, or someone writes about the facts about treaty land entitlement or the facts about the Northern Flood Agreement. Then I love the media that, again usually from out of province, comes up and celebrates and recognizes a good-looking guy when he sees one, and this does not do justice. This is the shrinking. This is a miniature of a photograph that was in the–but the headline is Mining: A Top Priority for Manitoba, and it goes on to say: Newman, along with the rest of the Manitoba government, is making Manitoba an example of how good provincial government is supposed to work.

That is marketing. That is the kind of dissemination of information, and you know what? This publication, people pay for this. They paid in the U.K. over a pound; they paid in the USA $2.10; in Canada, $2.95 to see that mining is a top priority for Manitoba and to read this is a place to invest and explore and do mining.

What were your impressions of the PDAC? Very good, a very worthwhile event, completely positive. It allowed us an opportunity to promote our province and communities to companies from around the world. I strongly recommend we go every year. What do you feel the goals of Team Manitoba were? Market to mining and investment companies in a unified effort the benefits and advantages of investing in Manitoba, to provide direct contact between government community representatives and the mining industry, and so on and so on.

What were your overall impressions of the minister's breakfast? Was it effective and why? Excellent, well done, very impressed, really enjoyed the minister's breakfast, he made a powerful speech, presentations were very good, spoke to many senior ambassadors, allowed time for the Team Manitoba? How do you feel you directly benefited from participating, direct distribution of information on our communities?

The Acting Chairperson (Mr. Helwer): I will interrupt the proceedings. The hour being 6 p.m., committee rise. Call in the Speaker.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Helwer): The hour being 6 p.m., this House adjourns and stands adjourned until 1:30 p.m. Monday.