Madam Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I am pleased firstly to introduce to the House Megan Pauls, Hanover School Division, who has also been selected to serve as a page at this session. Welcome, Megan.

In the public gallery this afternoon, we have twenty-four Grade 6 students from Meadows West School under the direction of Mr. Ed Yaworski. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux).

And, five Grade 9 students from Chapman School with the Crossroads Program under the direction of Mr. Rick House. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable First Minister (Mr. Filmon).

And, 50 journalism students from Red River College under the direction of Mr. Duncan McMonagle. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Wellington (Ms. Barrett).

* (1335)

And, eleven Grades 6 to 8 students from Rock Lake School under the direction of Mr. Charles Friesen. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism (Mr. Tweed).

On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you this afternoon.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, to the former minister responsible for the Treasury Board and the Deputy Premier and Minister of Health, who undoubtedly was involved in the decision to proceed with this new frozen food in many of our health care facilities. I was puzzled by his answers yesterday in the House based on the experience that I had witnessed in my own community and other communities. For example, at Concordia Hospital it appears to me that the cafeteria of the hospital is still open and the staff of the hospital have the option of eating the food at the cafeteria, and the patients are given frozen food from another site. In other words, there are two sites, not the one central site that the minister talked about. Can the minister confirm that that is in fact what has happened?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Health): First of all, Madam Speaker, the objective throughout all of this change in terms of food services being provided to our hospitals is being done in conjunction with the nine hospitals themselves. As we all know, they own the Urban Shared Services Corporation. Certainly the No. 1 objective is to provide quality, nutritional food for the patients in our health care facilities and as well to do that as efficiently and effectively as possible. In terms of the main provision of the food services, the majority in the main provision is being done through one centralized food service commissary that I believe the capital cost was approximately $20 million.

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, the minister did not answer the question. He has not tabled the business plan; he has not tabled the contract. He is following on the similar vein of the former Minister of Health, who did not table the contract, did not table the business plan, and withholding information on the cost per meal. We know the quality of food is deficient from the previous system from patients, and I would like to ask the minister: are the staff eating food from one set of kitchens in the cafeteria, different food than the food that is being served to the patients?

Mr. Stefanson: Well, again, Madam Speaker, the member refers to the contract and the business plan. He asked that question yesterday in this House. There is more than one contract; there are a number of contracts that are in place, contracts between the health care facilities and Urban Shared Services, contracts between Urban Shared Services and the company that is providing the services.

I did undertake to him yesterday to review all of those issues with the Urban Shared Services Corporation with a view to releasing whatever can be released. As he knows, sometimes there are preclusions because of third-party confidentiality and other issues. He has been in government, although it was a long time ago, but he knows that full well, that sometimes there are, but we did undertake to review the whole issue of the contracts and the business plans.

When he talks about the quality of food, I will cite him one example of a survey recently done by Victoria General Hospital during the week of March 28 to April 3, just a couple of weeks ago--found that about 80 percent of the patients related the food as good or excellent. The last survey, which was done before the Urban Shared Services took over the food services, found about a 65 percent approval rate. So, by continually working at the system, Madam Speaker, the whole objective is to continue to improve the quality of food and to provide quality food to the patients in our health care facilities.

* (1340)

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, we have to assume that after asking the minister twice the same question, he does not have an answer, and what we hear in northeast Winnipeg and what we hear in other quadrants of the city is correct. The staff eat the food from the conventional kitchens and the conventional cafeteria, and the patients are served the food from the Filmon frozen food experiment..

This government is still continuing to cover up all the contracts they have signed instead of making them public. It is the taxpayers that are responsible to this Chamber, that pay for the hospital budgets through the Department of Health, through this Legislature, through whatever bureaucracy this government has created, whatever authority they have created in the last couple of months over to the hospitals. This minister should start taking responsibility, and this Legislature should get the contracts.

The president of the Royal Canadian Legion has stated that they have condemned the mistreatment of veterans, and they have asked this government to realize this mistake and return to the normal way of feeding our war veterans. What does the minister have to say to the president of the Royal Canadian Legion and the war veterans who want to go back to home-cooked meals in the cafeterias rather than the Filmon frozen food that we have from this government?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Health): Well, again, Madam Speaker, on the whole issue of the release of the contracts which the member referred to, I have indicated to him a willingness to look at that issue with a view to releasing what can be released, certainly in terms of looking to apply the same rules to those contracts as apply to contracts entered into by the government of Manitoba, even though they are entered into by the Urban Shared Services Corporation. So I have indicated a willingness to look at that entire issue.

When it comes to the quality of food, I have given him one example of a survey done at Victoria. I know surveys are being done at all of our health care facilities that have the new food services, and I know that the quality of food, the rating by the patients, continues to improve. As well, at Deer Lodge Centre some changes were made in terms of giving some options in terms of the provision of those foods. Again, I am told that that is something that is being well received by the patients.

So certainly the objective of the Urban Shared Services Corporation is to continue to work at providing quality food to the patients, to make sure it is nutritional and to be sure that it is done as efficiently and effectively as possible, that resources that can be saved in that area can be dedicated to other needs in our health care system.

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, in spite of his protestations, the minister knows that the frozen food fiasco is far over budget with millions of dollars of renovations needed at the Health Sciences Centre and St. Boniface Hospital not even yet tendered, let alone underway, with a facility that is hopelessly overcrowded.

Will the Minister of Health finally admit that the frozen food project is over budget, that the plant itself is very overcrowded, extremely overcrowded, and is underperforming significantly in terms of meals assembled, and will he now table the actual capital and current operating costs of that facility?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, again, I think I indicated to the same member yesterday, let us look at this issue, and let us look at the objective of the centralized food services change to the Urban Shared Services Corporation, which is the nine hospitals. They are on both sides of the issue. They are providing the service to themselves. So the objectives throughout that are to provide quality food, provide nutritional food, to do it as efficiently and effectively as possible.

To give him one example when it comes to the capital cost--as I have indicated the capital cost of this one centralized facility is approximately $20 million. The capital cost of making improvements to all nine hospitals, I am told, would have been in the range of at least $40 million. So right there alone on the capital cost side of the equation there is a savings in terms of the capital cost, the investment that would be required to upgrade the kitchen facilities and maintain the kitchen facilities at appropriate standards.

As well, by providing services from one central location, there are the opportunities for the economies of scale and improved efficiencies, and that certainly will be and is the long-term objective of Urban Shared Services Corporation.

Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, spokespersons for the Health Sciences Centre dispute the minister's words: The costs were far less than he has ever put on the table.

Will the minister confirm that the renovations to the nine participating facilities required by this fiasco will cost far more than is budgeted and that in fact the renovations to HSC alone will cost more than was budgeted for the entire nine facilities?

Mr. Stefanson: The member is wrong, Madam Speaker, certainly in terms of meeting the future needs of our health care system. We are not just talking today. Again, I know the members opposite take a short-term narrow view and cannot look over a medium-term or a longer-term period of time in terms of what is required to provide quality food services in the most efficient and effective way. Certainly the facility that has been put in place will meet those needs for many years to come.

So, over the next several years, in the absence of a centralized facility, all of our nine hospitals would have had to make significant capital improvements. The amount that I have been provided with is those capital costs would have been in the range of about $40 million, and that compares to a capital cost today of about $20 million. Those are the numbers.

* (1345)

Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, will the minister finally do some homework and confirm that the facility now has more staff preparing 5,400 meals a day than was budgeted for to provide 8,700 meals a day? They already have 15 more full-time staff providing 5,400 meals than they budgeted for to provide 8,700 meals. Will he do some homework and report to this House?

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, I do not need any lessons on homework coming from the only elected person in Manitoba who was reprimanded by the Monnin inquiry, and that is the member for Crescentwood right there. He can certainly read from the transcript if he is so inclined to be interested in terms of what was said about his performance as an elected official.

But, again, the objective of Urban Shared Services is to provide quality food, to provide nutritional food and to do it as efficiently as they possibly can. Certainly they are going through a transitional period, which we have acknowledged over the course of the last several months. We have acknowledged publicly that things are taking a little bit longer in terms of introducing the new system. That is not necessarily bad if it means at the end of the day we are going to end up with the best, most appropriate system in terms of meeting the quality that we all want the patients in our hospitals to have and being sure it is done as effectively as possible, Madam Speaker.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, in the early '70s the Public Insurance Corporation was created by the Schreyer government which has resulted in the second lowest rates in Canada and an investment of money being maintained in Manitoba. [interjection] If you want to talk about the broken promise on privatization of Telephones, we are more than willing to talk about your broken word.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. I would like to remind all honourable members this is not a time for debate. This is Question Period.

The honourable Leader of the official opposition, to pose his question.

Mr. Doer: Thank you, Madam Speaker. In 1997 the government changed the policy of the Public Insurance Corporation and required the deductible to be paid for by the victims of car thefts. We had urged the previous minister to look at dealing with the criminals, not the victims, in policy. I would like to ask the Minister of the Public Insurance Corporation whether she has reviewed this horrible policy established by the previous minister, and has she reversed that treatment to the victims of car thefts here in Manitoba.

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Act): A very, very interesting question; the preamble itself could take an hour to address. I will not burden the House with differences in how good stewardship can make good differences. I will not talk about some of the mismanagement of Autopac and MPI prior to this administration taking its place in Manitoba. I will say that the member likes to make comparisons, but he very seldom will make comparisons to what is happening in Saskatchewan where their deductible is much higher than ours. Theirs is $700 versus our $500. [interjection] On the basic. They have exactly the same system, except they charge their ratepayers more under the NDP in the province next door, as they do in British Columbia.

We have, Madam Speaker, been able to save money, particularly where auto theft is concerned, some $2.4 million this year alone in premium savings for ratepayers because of the things we have done with Autopac this year.

Mr. Doer: A stolen car represents a loss of property to a family or an individual. It represents much higher costs now with the Public Insurance Corporation, and it also represents a danger to other members of our community because of this car that is stolen in the hands of somebody that cannot be trusted on the roads. We believe and I think all members of this Chamber believe that all efforts of the public through their agencies and through this Legislature should be focused in on the criminal not on the victim. I would like to ask the minister: will she reverse this policy of having the deductible paid by the victim? Let us focus in on the real problem, and that is the alleged criminals who commit the act.

Mrs. McIntosh: Madam Speaker, we have a number of programs that we co-operate in partnership with the community regarding auto theft. We have last year some $600,000 that was shared with the Winnipeg police, resulting in a 9 percent decrease in auto theft, by the way, this year. In fact, if you take a look at March this year versus March last year, we are down 23 percent in auto theft largely because of measures of partnership and proactive things that have been done through combatting auto theft strategy and other measures put in place by MPI.

* (1350)

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Madam Speaker, my question is to the Acting Premier. Five promises were made during the last election campaign to Manitobans to deal with what was then and still is an epidemic of auto theft--by the way, a 210 percent increase since 1991. A 9 percent decrease does not touch that kind of problem that Manitobans are having to deal with. But whatever happened to those five promises: the incentives for antitheft devices, the auto theft surveillance task force, the auto theft prosecutor, resources from the $2-million grant from the City of Winnipeg Police Service, the young offender auto theft work program? What happened to those? My question to the Acting Premier is: why should Manitobans now trust this government when it promises anything?

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, I was very interested in hearing the comments of the Minister responsible for MPI, where it is clearly indicated that the policies that have been implemented by this government are having a very positive effect on the reduction of auto theft, 9 percent in this last year. If we look March over March, minus 23 percent, it is in fact attributable to many of the programs that we have brought in.

One of the examples was brought forward in the Young Offenders Act hearings that we recently conducted where a mother had explained that she had gone with her young son to get the licence and yet could not get the licence because he had created some type of crime affecting the ratepayers of Manitoba in terms of their Autopac, and he had to pay that. In fact, I understand from MPI that MPI now gets $9 million on a subrogated basis, on an annual basis, because of these proactive programs that our government has implemented.

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): My question is to the Acting Premier. Would he explain to people like Lois and Brian Campbell, who came down to this Legislature here today to tell this government that on their $650 vehicle they had to pay a $500 deductible when their car was stolen, even though it was locked, parked in a parking lot under a light, would he explain to them why this government has broken five promises on auto theft when we are the auto theft capital of Canada and people are suffering the way they are?

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, not only have we not broken those promises, we have carried those promises out.

The other one relates to the auto theft unit that the Department of Justice was very proud to partner with MPI and the city of Winnipeg police. MPI transfers $600,000 to the Winnipeg city police for an auto theft unit to in fact deal with auto crime, and that, in fact, is a very, very important aspect of reducing crime that we implemented in this last year.

Also, the point that needs to be made is that Justice co-operates with MPI by dedicating a Crown attorney. In fact, a Crown attorney has been seconded to MPI from the Crown's office to assist for the prosecution of special cases, especially organized crime, that deal with chop shops and the like that cause a tremendous burden on our ratepayers. I am very pleased to see that not only Justice has been active in this respect, but MPI has been doing an excellent job.

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Well, then, my question to the Minister of Justice: can he possibly explain to Manitobans how this government has been effective in dealing with auto theft when there are 30 vehicles a day roughly getting stolen in this province and when promise after promise after promise after promise made by the government, promises that it said would reduce auto theft, have been trashed? Explain that to Manitobans.

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, is it not typical of the member for St. Johns to stand up and say we have broken promises but does not outline any of these promises. I have attempted very specifically to answer each and every accusation that he has made, and again, the member is wrong in making these assertions. It is just like the other day when he said to the press: I am surprised to hear that the judges had rejected a Domestic Violence Court. He was surprised when, in fact, a year ago I told him the answer in Question Period. I gave him the answer in committee. Suddenly he is surprised. This is a member who simply does not listen.

* (1355)

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, I believe Beauchesne's indicates that answers should be brief and to the point and should deal with the subject matter. The minister has the option, as he has chosen, not to answer the question and try to obfuscate. We saw that from the Minister of Health when he blamed and went after and attacked individuals. Now the minister is going back to an incident that occurred a year ago. Perhaps he is embarrassed about it, but he can deal with that in another forum. I ask you to call him to order to deal with the question asked or not to deal with it but to continue to go on, abuse this Question Period, and Beauchesne's makes it very clear that the minister ought to deal with the subject matter as discussed.

Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister of Justice, on the same point of order.

Mr. Toews: Well, Madam Speaker, I think it is very important to explain to you in making your rulings that it is important that perhaps one of the reasons why the member is not understanding my answers is that he simply does not listen, and I think that is relevant to the questions that are being placed.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. On the point of order raised by the honourable member for Kildonan, I would agree that the honourable member did have a point of order. I would ask the minister to keep his answer as brief as possible and deal with the question raised.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro. Again we see an expenditure, as I have indicated, of a half billion dollars-plus authorized through this particular government, yet this government has still not indicated to this Chamber why it made that particular purchase, why it felt that purchase was necessary. So I am going to give a wonderful, easy question to the Minister of Hydro in hopes that he will be able to give a very specific answer.

What is the primary purpose for the purchase of Centra Gas?

Hon. David Newman (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Hydro Act): Madam Speaker, it was a combination of a variety of reasons that caused this particular transaction to get the support of the government, the final terms of it, of course, still to be finalized. The approach, having been made by the West Coast president to Manitoba Hydro, the Manitoba Hydro management team and advisers scrutinized very carefully all of the opportunities that were inherent in this particular opportunity, and they concluded on the basis of examining all of the implications that this would be in the best interests of the owners of Manitoba Hydro, the people of Manitoba. One of the primary benefits from the integration of the two utilities would be efficiencies would result in $12 million a year, estimated, in terms of savings to the operation. In addition to that, and probably most significantly, it makes the Manitoba combined utility a competitive force in the North American marketplace.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, I ask the minister of Hydro. He now indicates to the House that Centra Gas is the one that approached the government in order to be bought out.

Can the minister indicate to this House: was Centra Gas experiencing any problems? Why was it that the government felt obligated then to go ahead and purchase it without any sort of a detailed plan for the future of that particular company in the province of Manitoba?

Mr. Newman: Madam Speaker, it would be presumptuous and inappropriate for me to suggest why Michael Phelps, representing West Coast transmission, the owner of Centra, would approach Manitoba Hydro with a view to presumably trying to benefit to the maximum the shareholders of Westcoast Energy.

* (1400)

What we do know is that, through a process of negotiation by the experienced business people on both sides and the professional advisers on both sides, they both came to a deal which they thought was in the best interests of each of the utilities. It was seen to be a win-win transaction. I think, with the passage of time, the honourable member for Inkster will probably see the light as well and be able to, when all of the information is released--it will be released in due course--come to the same conclusion that Hydro did and the government of the province of Manitoba.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, can the minister indicate specifically: is there any indication from this government towards rural Manitobans that by purchasing Centra Gas it is the government's intentions to update and modernize the infrastructure in rural Manitoba? Is that the primary reason why they bought Centra Gas?

Hon. David Newman (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Hydro Act): Madam Speaker, that is a legitimate kind of concern expressed by the honourable member for Inkster, and the quality of the decisions that are going to be made by the integrated utility will probably depend on the degree to which government does not intervene in good business decisions for that corporation. At the moment, however, the public is quite aware in rural Manitoba at least that a great deal of subsidization goes into the development of a distribution infrastructure for natural gas, both federal and provincial money. Now, with an integrated utility, it is going to be possible to look at what is in the public interest in the long-term big picture with both natural gas and hydro transmission being options.

But one thing is probable. It makes no sense to have a duplicated infrastructure where it would be an overall waste of limited resources in the province. It would have to be made on business cases in each situation.

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Madam Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Finance. In past budget documents this government has spoken in glowing terms about increases in capital investment spending, and I agree. Capital investment spending is very vital in terms of future economic growth. But now Statistics Canada has forecast a major decline in total capital spending--that is private and public combined--for Manitoba for 1999, that is a decline of 9.3 percent, ranking Manitoba the second lowest in the country, nine out of 10.

I would like to ask the minister if he could explain to this House why Manitoba is expected to have such a drastic decline in total capital spending investment, and is this an indication of a possible slowdown in the Manitoba economy in the year ahead.

Hon. Harold Gilleshammer (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, I would have thought perhaps the former minister, the member for Brandon East, would like to celebrate the many good things that are happening across the province. Manitoba has probably the most diversified economy of all the western provinces, and if he takes a look at a number of the economic indicators, Manitoba is poised to do very well into the next year.

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Madam Speaker, I had asked the question about total capital spending, but in terms of private capital spending, has the minister had any direct indication from the private sector about private investment spending intentions for 1999, because Statistics Canada is forecasting a major drop of 11.9 percent in private capital spending in 1999, again ranking Manitoba nine out of 10 provinces.

Hon. Harold Gilleshammer (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, in my first answer I urged the member to take a look at all of the economic indicators, but if he wants to maybe zero in on development, I would suggest even in Brandon, if he has an opportunity to visit out there sometime soon, that he look at the many hundreds of millions of dollars that have gone into building in Brandon. The Simplot expansion, for instance, was over $200 million. The Maple Leaf expansion, the new plant there that I am sure he celebrates along with us, is $112 million. He can see the private sector development in Brandon with a number of businesses and hotels opening. Certainly the economy looks very rosy in Brandon.

Mr. Leonard Evans The honourable minister reminds me of the fact that we did, the Schreyer government did expand the Brandon boundary so that all these developments are truly in the city of Brandon, and I am very pleased about that.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member, to pose his final supplementary question.

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Again, Madam Speaker, I ask the minister: will he acknowledge that in the manufacturing sector, a 22 percent decline is now forecast by Stats Canada for 1999. Is this not a serious portent of what is going to happen? I am not talking about the past. What about Manitoba in 1999 and the year 2000?

Hon. Harold Gilleshammer (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, I would hope that perhaps the member would take a little leadership within his caucus. I know the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) and the member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale) are often talking doom and gloom and how terrible things are in this province. I would simply point out that manufacturing shipments were up 7.1 percent in 1998 versus 3.1 percent for Canada; foreign exports were up 6.2 percent, the ninth consecutive annual increase. Certainly the economy in Manitoba is recognized by many of the forecasters as doing very well. I would urge the member for Brandon East to get a better understanding of those issues.

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro. Yesterday the minister claimed that the lawyer representing Westcoast Energy was not also representing Manitoba Hydro. I would like to table a letter sent by James Foran to the PUB on April 12, in which he said he was asked to forward this letter on behalf of Westcoast Energy and Manitoba Hydro.

Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the minister: has the minister read the letter, and if so what is his explanation as to why Manitoba Hydro would be using the same lawyer as Centra Gas prior to the conclusion of negotiations over the sale of Centra Gas to Manitoba Hydro?

Hon. David Newman (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Hydro Act): Madam Speaker, it does not sound like a very good idea to me that they would use the same lawyer to represent them in this important commercial transaction. Whether or not in this particular instance there was a meeting of the minds between some lawyer for Manitoba Hydro and the lawyer for Aikins, MacAulay about sending a letter to the Public Utilities Board, I do not know. But in light of the persistence of the member opposite on this unimportant issue, I believe I will seek from Manitoba Hydro an explanation as to why Aikins, MacAulay and Thorvaldson, through James Foran, said in the first sentence: "I have been asked to forward this letter on behalf of Westcoast Energy Inc. and Manitoba Hydro."

I will find out who made the request and why the request was made, if a request was made.

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): Madam Speaker, it is very surprising that the minister finds it an unimportant question.

I would like to ask the minister: can the minister explain why he, as the Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro, did not know whether Manitoba Hydro was asking for private hearings at the PUB, because it is in the letter?

* (1410)

Hon. David Newman (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Hydro Act): Madam Speaker, I can simply say that I do not support Manitoba Hydro asking for private hearings. To the extent they are asking specific things of the Public Utilities Board, that was their business decision to make. To the extent that I disagree with that, that is what I am entitled to do as a minister of the Crown. I say for the record, I do not believe that Manitoba Hydro should be asking for private hearings if indeed they did.

Mr. Maloway: Madam Speaker, then to the same minister: will this minister now order Manitoba Hydro to reverse its position and request public hearings?

Mr. Newman: Madam Speaker, you can rest assured--all members of the Legislature--that this particular position of mine has been communicated to Manitoba Hydro, and they are well aware of it. I would expect that they will make a decision which is going to be respectful of whatever the Public Utilities Board decides in this matter. My expectations there are irrelevant to this matter, but my hope is that they will respect the fact that the people of Manitoba are the owners of Manitoba Hydro and I, as their representative through the government of the province of Manitoba, would hope that the maximum amount of information without jeopardizing the deal can be made timely available to the people of Manitoba.

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Madam Speaker, as farmers get ready to get back on the land and begin spring seeding, they are facing very serious decisions and many may not be able to continue. There has been an announcement of a Farm Aid Package for some time but the applications just got to Ag offices last week, and now we are told that it is six to eight weeks before the applications can be processed after having filed the claim. This is putting tremendous pressure on farmers.

Given that the province has contributed 40 percent of the program, I would like to ask the minister to tell this House why he has allowed this process to drag along so long, why he has allowed the applications to be so complicated, why they are tied to NISA and why it is going to take so long to get money to the farmers.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The minister requested, I believe off the record, that the honourable member for Swan River repeat her question, and that is entirely the--

An Honourable Member: Can you read newspapers in this House?

Madam Speaker: Pardon me?

An Honourable Member: He is reading a newspaper.

Madam Speaker: --decision of the honourable member for Swan River, and she indicated she wanted to comply.

Ms. Wowchuk: Madam Speaker, given that this is a very serious matter, I will repeat the question. I am asking the Minister of Agriculture why the process is taking so long. Given that the province contributed 40 percent to a program, can the minister tell this House why he has allowed the process to drag on so long that applications have just been received at agricultural offices? It is going to take eight to 10 weeks to have them process it, and farmers will not get their money in time to put their crops in the ground this year.

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Agriculture): Madam Speaker, I am very pleased to respond to that question, and I do apologize to the member for having been momentarily distracted. It is just today that I was getting several letters, including official letters from the Keystone Agricultural Producers organization on that very same subject, and I am reading comments to the same effect in the farm press that was preoccupying me.

I remind the honourable member that this program was designed and is administrated entirely by Ottawa. I remind honourable members that I personally and my government were criticized for being one of the last ones to enter the program. There was a reason. We understood that the program had design flaws. It had very complicated administrative fees. I have a letter here that one of our prominent accounting firms--that certainly the member for Brandon East (Mr. Leonard Evans) would be familiar with—Meyers Norris, are estimating that it will cost a farmer between $400 and $925 in accounting fees just to make the application, and the farmer is not guaranteed that he will receive any support. So, yes, I am distressed with the program. I agree fully with the program that it is unacceptable.

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Madam Speaker, is the Minister of Agriculture telling us that his staff had no part in designing this program, that the provincial government had no input to the program when they have put 40 percent of the money forward? That is unacceptable. They should be having some input into this program.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable Minister of Agriculture was not recognized and his comments are not on record, because I could not get the attention of the members of the House so that indeed he could put his comments on the record.

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Agriculture): Madam Speaker, I am indebted to you for reminding me to proceed appropriately in the Chamber.

Much to my chagrin and to that of certainly my senior staff members in the Department of Agriculture, and I might say understandably to the Minister of Finance, our own Treasury Board, we were being asked to commit a very substantial amount of money in a Farm Aid Program that we had no hand in designing and in its administration. It was for that reason that I did get the authority and support from my caucus, from my government to, as an interim measure, introduce a recovery program that has been very well accepted by the farm community. Over $22 million has already flowed in that program. Cash is out in time for seeding. We anticipated the problems in the federal program, and I am pleased to note that this government, with the support of this government, provided that emergency support.

Madam Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.