4th-36th Vol. 67B-Oral Questions

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, we have been raising the issue of shortage of doctors in rural and northern Manitoba and in our urban centres. Family doctors, in particular, are in real demand, creating hardships for families in this province. In 1990, this government talked about moving more resources to communities; in 1993, they talked about moving more health care resources to communities, and in 1995, the Premier promised to move more resources in health care to community-based health care centres. Today at Klinic, female doctors are not seeing any new patients until January 1999; male doctors it is well into the fall of '98. At the Women's Health Clinic, the shortage is resulting in not accepting any new patients right now.

I would like to ask this Premier (Mr. Filmon): why has he broken another promise on health care here in Manitoba?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, first of all, I do not have the specifics on the cases that the member has raised here in Question Period today. If past history serves us well, one should check on the facts, and we are certainly going to do that.

One of the fundamental problems with respect to family physicians, which we have raised in this House and discussed in this House and attempted to move on, was their place within the allocations that the MMA determined on fee-for-service schedule. That particular area is now being addressed under the arbitration process. That is No. 1.

Number two, we have made some major efforts in building community clinics. The Assiniboine Clinic model was one which is now being evaluated. Madam Speaker--[interjection] --of course it is going to be evaluated. That is how we learn as to whether or not the model works, and we are working very closely to take the next stage, which is some enhancements in our community clinic models.

Let us not forget that we recruited nearly 30 new doctors this year to this province.

Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): Madam Speaker, Beatrice Mansell suffers with severe back problems. After waiting nearly seven months, she was able to see a back specialist who referred Mrs. Mansell to the pain clinic only after she was unable to get an MRI appointment because the waiting list was so long for MRI procedures. Unfortunately the waiting list at the pain clinic is some 400 people long, which will take nearly 12 months before Mrs. Mansell is able to get an appointment.

Can the Minister of Health, or perhaps the Premier (Mr. Filmon), indicate or explain why Mrs. Mansell and other Manitobans suffering with debilitating pain should have to wait for seven months to see a back specialist and then have to wait another 12 months to get an appointment at the pain clinic, all the while in debilitating pain? Is this acceptable policy and practice by this government?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I am not going to accept without checking the numbers that the member for Transcona has put before the House or the specifics of those cases.

But I can tell the member that part of the plan for the Winnipeg Regional Hospital Authority has been the amalgamation enhancement of pain clinic services. With respect to MRI, we will see an increase in MRIs in this province from one to three. They are in construction, and Manitoba Health, through the Winnipeg Hospital Authority, will be buying more time appropriately on those particular machines when they are up and operating.

Mr. George Hickes (Point Douglas): Madam Speaker, Kelly Garrioch-Hartfiel had suffered the symptoms of primary cirrhosis for about a year before she was diagnosed with the disease this past February. It was not until this week that she got an appointment with a specialist who was only able to take a blood test and tell her that in four months he might possibly be able to see her again to determine a treatment program.

I have been informed that there are only three doctors who treat this type of liver disease, who are overworked and overbooked with patients. It appears that Ms. Garrioch-Hartfiel will wait for a year before she can even begin to receive treatment for her disease. By the time this Manitoban receives necessary treatment, it is possible that she will require a liver transplant and face yet another waiting list.

How can this government allow diagnosis and treatment for liver disease, such as primary cirrhosis, to proceed at such a snail's pace while patients like Ms. Garrioch-Hartfiel continue to suffer for endless months?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Again, Madam Speaker, my experience is, when many of these cases are checked out in detail, they do not often match the way in which they are portrayed by members opposite. My experience has been--in all of these cases where a matter is determined by a physician to be urgent and is so flagged with specialists--that their ability to access those specialists is very, very quick. So, if those particular physicians who are making the recommendations are not flagging that as urgent, that should be taken up with their general practitioner.

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Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): Madam Speaker, if the Minister of Health thinks that urgent operations or procedures are being done on an urgent basis, he is wrong. Ernie Dooley of Brandon, Manitoba, can testify to that. He had heart valve replacement surgery scheduled; he was told it would take two or three weeks back in February. It was cancelled three times and was only done three months later.

I am wondering if the minister will review the experience of Mr. Dooley, who went through a great deal of hardship. Many other Manitobans are going through a similar hardship. Will he finally admit that people in Manitoba are getting sick and tired of the lengthening waiting lists and the rhetoric from this minister, which is doing nothing to help people like Mr. Dooley?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the member refers to the heart program. In all the years that program has operated, heart surgery has been done on the basis determined by physicians of the urgency of the matter. We have all had constituents who have been scheduled for surgery, and a more urgent case has happened, and that is the time that the surgeon has moved that case forward. That has always been the case, and it always will be because those cases are assessed on the basis of urgency.

So the example that the member brings, I think, proves very clearly about the setting of emergency by doctors. The reason why the individual was moved back three times is because urgent cases came in and took that operating time. Those are decisions made by the physicians who run the programs.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, there is no doubt that this government is in fact addicted to the VLT revenues. In fact, one of the things they did to try to divert some of the problems that they were having is they established a commission. Chairing that commission is a gentleman by the name of Archie Cham, who is quoted as saying in the media yesterday, and I quote: We do not see a groundswell of support for people to have VLTs removed from their communities.

Madam Speaker, this is the individual who is supposed to be leading the public discussion on this. I would suggest and would ask the Premier: is this person in a position in which he can in fact be neutral and do what is in the best interests of the communities in the province of Manitoba?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, I read the same article, and I took it as an observation of fact, as opposed to an opinion.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, let me ask the Premier then: is he of the same opinion that his politically appointed chairperson is, that Manitobans do not care about this particular issue, that they do not have any concerns, that they do not want to see the reduction of the VLTs? Is that the position of this government today?

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, the reason that we appointed this committee to review this matter and then approved their plan to go out for public hearings was so that we would find out just exactly what the concerns were, the intensity and the degree of the concerns. You can only do that by holding public consultations. That is precisely what is happening. Unlike the member for Inkster, I am not prepared to prejudge the outcome of those hearings.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, will the Premier, at the very least, take his political appointee and ask him to come before a standing committee at which MLAs can in fact ask him some of the questions? Because the chairperson is dead wrong on that issue. This is a serious issue. Manitobans want to be heard. This government should be allowing for a plebiscite this fall, as opposed to putting it off--

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, we are treating it as a serious issue. That is why we have asked the commission to hold these hearings, unlike the member opposite who just wants to treat it as a cheap political issue.

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Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Madam Speaker, I would like to table three copies of a letter from the sleep lab at St. Boniface Hospital dated March 7, 1996. Unfortunately, this patient was unable to get an appointment to this time and is going to Thunder Bay, Ontario, for a diagnosis. The main reason is that the waiting lists are two to three years long for a diagnosis for sleep disorders.

I wrote to the minister on February 16, 1998, and I asked the minister and I will ask the minister again: what is he willing to do to reduce the serious waiting lists for sleep disorders, disorders which have a huge impact on individuals and a cost to society and which are potentially fatal? What is the Minister of Health going to do to reduce these serious waiting lists?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, there are whole hosts of issues that fit into this, the number of specialists available. There are many particular times when people want a particular service, and there are only so many people available to provide it, often because there are only so many experts in that particular field.

We also know that we do not have all the resources in the world, and the ones that we do have we attempt to target into very high areas. One can always point out where more money can be spent, but the reality is there is only so much. We have added many more millions of dollars over the last number of years despite losing over $200 million a year from the federal government in transfer payments, which the former NDP member for St. Johns, who is now a federal critic, seems to be the only New Democrat in Manitoba who recognizes that.

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Madam Speaker, I have a constituent in Brandon who is suffering considerable pain with her hip. In mid-February she was told that she could have perhaps a replacement operation in March, but this did not happen. In May she was told that the surgeon at Brandon General could only do two operations a month, was only allowed to do two operations a month. She was 10th on the list, and the doctor was going to take a few days holiday in the summer. The lady now believes that she will be lucky to be operated on in November.

In the meantime, as an alternative, she has contacted the Grace Hospital but cannot get an appointment with the appropriate doctor till the end of August, and even then she was given no indication if and when an operation could take place at that hospital. My question to the minister is: this woman is suffering considerable pain and is very apprehensive of the future. Can the minister do something to help her?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, part of our plan has been to purchase an additional--and we are purchasing an additional 500 large joint replacements.

Let us remember how we found the dollars for that. We found that by closing the obstetrics facility at Grace Hospital, saving $1.8 million annually. We did not need that service. We are down some 3,000 births a year, and we have dedicated those dollars to additional hip and knee replacements. Let us remember that the New Democrats opposed that, that the New Democrats would have preferred to spend the money on a service we did not need rather than to put it where we did need it. That is the kind of choice one has to make. We are glad we are able to make that.

With respect to the specific case of the surgeon, it may be in fact that that surgeon has a very long waiting list, but as we have indicated, we are purchasing some 500 additional surgeries a year now.

Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health. Mr. Vandale of St. Boniface damaged his rotary cuff one year ago. When the pain became severe, Mr. Vandale had to wait several months for an appointment with a specialist. He was told to see another specialist and is now waiting for his appointment which is scheduled for June 26. In the meantime, when he attended the Pan Am Clinic, the doctor said that he should have received attention right away. Hopefully, he will find out on the June 26 meeting what treatment he will require, but undoubtedly that will simply place him on another waiting list.

I want to ask the Minister of Health: can he explain to Mr. Vandale and many other Manitobans why they have to wait months and months to receive serious medical condition attention?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Again, Madam Speaker, the member brings an individual case. I would certainly welcome the opportunity to look at all of the facts around that case because the experience of many individuals who have called my office or have spoken to me is that when matters are very urgent and identified so by their primary health care physician, on an urgent basis they are moved forward into the system.

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Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St. James): Madam Speaker, Angie Shynkaruk, a constituent, a mother of a young baby, new baby, a three-year-old, suffered from serious spinal injury in November of '97. Treatments unfortunately were unsuccessful and additional neurological problems developed. By February, surgery was recommended, but before that could occur, an MRI had to be done. The earliest appointment given to Ms. Shynkaruk was July 28, 1998, seven months later. Angie, her husband and the two children packed up, drove to Grafton, North Dakota, where she received her MRI immediately. In fact, the technician who gave her the test came from Winnipeg where he could not have full-time employment.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. Would the honourable member please pose her question now.

Ms. Mihychuk: Madam Speaker, my question to the Minister of Health: what does the minister have to say to Ms. Shynkaruk, who was left with the choice of not being able to pick up her baby for seven months or taking a trip to Grafton, North Dakota?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, as members opposite know, Manitoba has had one MRI at St. Boniface in which the Ministry of Health has bought a significant amount of time. Over the last while, a great effort has been made to increase the MRI capacity in the province. Health Sciences Centre will have one MRI. It is in the process of being set up, as we speak, and at St. Boniface they are replacing their current MRI with a state-of-the-art MRI and adding a second, all of which will give us the capacity to be able to meet the growing demand for this service in the province.

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): What would the Minister of Health have to say to the woman who, less than 10 days ago, found herself in labour in the women's pavilion in this city, in our chief maternity ward, sitting in the waiting room, not because she was late getting there but because there was no bed for her? There was no bed in which to deliver a baby in the maternity ward of the women's pavilion. What would he have to say to that woman, Madam Speaker?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I would like the opportunity to get the facts on that particular case. There is more than enough capacity in the Winnipeg hospital system to handle births. From time to time, I am sure that they have more taking place than less, and that is part of any scheduling of facilities, but the capacity--

An Honourable Member: You do not schedule babies.

Mr. Praznik: And the member says you do not schedule babies. You are absolutely right; you do not. And you do not build a church just for Easter service and Christmas, you build it for what you generally need. It is very ironic, but the members opposite did exactly the same thing when they were in power.

Ms. Becky Barrett (Wellington): Madam Speaker, since 1991, this government has been cutting speech and language services, especially for children. Today we have waiting lists of two years. In the city of Winnipeg alone, there are over 500 children waiting for services, and the situation is the same or worse in rural and northern areas. In March of this year, 1998, over four years after we first started raising this issue in the House, the minister informed the House, and I quote: the departments of Education, Family Services and Health were working with Treasury Board to bring down these lists--and that he would inform the House about a plan before the end of this session.

Given that Lorraine Leo, who must pay for private services for her children, said when a child does not learn to communicate, they get frustrated and have behaviour problems and not addressing this issue is a fiscally irresponsible attitude on the part of government because we will pay later, can the Minister of Health indicate to the House today whether it is the Ministry of Health, his department, or Jules Benson and the Treasury Board, who refuse to invest in children in this province?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, this government spends some 34 percent of the budgetary allocation of this province for health care. We spend extremely large amounts in family services and education. In fact, I do not know if it is somewhere over two-thirds of this government's expenditure is in the area of social services, health and education. We invest a great deal. We also know that the demands for many of these services have been increasing to a very large degree, and it has been a struggle to keep up. We have put more money in a rural program--

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. I am sure all members would like to be able to hear the response, and I am experiencing great difficulty.

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Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, as we have indicated, particularly in a more refined way, the plan for the Winnipeg Hospital Authority and the work being done by Dr. Brian Postl in identifying those resources is now being worked through. We hope to be able to see them flow very shortly.

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, some weeks ago in this House we notified the government about the hundreds of children on waiting lists in rural Manitoba for speech and audiology assessment. Mrs. Gardiner of Clearwater has a son on one of those lists, and so she was delighted to learn of a preschool program that could help her child 10 miles away in the Tiger Hills School Division but shocked that that division rejected her son. She now drives 180 miles every week; she pays $65 an hour for speech therapy for her son. She says: I found it very frustrating trying to find help for my son, and I know there are a lot of people who need the help but cannot afford the $65 an hour or the long drive for private therapy.

Could the Minister of Health tell us how long these waiting lists have to grow before those cuts to the speech therapy programs are restored?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I am not familiar with the detail of why that particular child was rejected from the program in the Tiger Hills area, but it does make the point there is a program. Why that individual was rejected, I certainly would like to investigate with my colleague the Minister of Education (Mrs. McIntosh).

Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health. Mr. Eugene Cherniak of Selkirk runs a risk of suffering a stroke from clotting since the atrium in his heart is not draining properly. Although it is critical that he have an echocardiogram as soon as possible, he is currently enduring a four-and-a-half-month wait for this test. Can this Minister of Health assure my constituents and others with heart conditions when they will receive this echocardiogram in a timely fashion and not run the risk of suffering strokes? Why do my constituents and other constituents across this province have to wait for an election before they get action from this government?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, there are two points to be made. As in all of these programs, the urgency of an individual patient is determined by the physicians, and the experience of many of us as MLAs when these matters have been brought to our attention is that, based on the urgency of their particular case, they are scheduled for the procedures and work that they need. That has always been the case, and the process rests with the physicians who are involved.

The second point I make, Madam Speaker, is with respect to many of these programs. They were run in a very diffuse basis traditionally within individual institutions. The ability to get a more central control and make the kinds of alterations that are needed to ensure that we do not have long waiting lists is now in place with the regional health authorities and is being done.

Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health, too. Consistently I have risen in this House to advise the members on the government side that, while problems are very serious in southern Manitoba in relation to health, the problems that we experience in the North are about 10 times worse than they are in southern Manitoba. I think everybody understands that.

I have a situation from a patient in Pukatawagan who has been waiting since January. He has been referred by a doctor to go to Thompson for a hearing problem to be tested. He has been waiting since January, and finally on July 7, I am given to understand, he is finally getting his hearing problems dealt with in Thompson.

I would like to ask the Minister of Health: would he wait all that time if he had a hearing problem here in Winnipeg to see a doctor?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, we all know that the ability to recruit specialists to various parts of the province that are more remote is a difficult one and that the ability to provide the service is not a financial issue; it is one of availability of recruiting those specialists. All the reports in the world do not necessarily make it possible to recruit those specialists. I can tell the member, in the course of the last year and a half I have had the opportunity to speak to a number of physicians who have practised up North, some of whom were leaving, about the reasons why they choose not to stay.

Madam Speaker, they are always very complex. It is a very difficult part of the world and of this province to recruit to, and so we continue to attempt to recruit. That is why we made a very large effort, and we were successful in getting some nearly 30 additional physicians into the province this year. The regrettable part is the New Democrats do not even recognize that.

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Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): To the Minister of Health. In February I wrote to the minister on behalf of a constituent, Ms. McCorrister, whose son was suffering from fusing of the skull, causing immediate risk of brain damage. After her son had been booked for surgery on more than one occasion, she showed up as scheduled for admission-- that is at Children's--waited four hours and was then told that there were no beds. Only weeks later, after my letter and publicity, could her son get surgery.

My question to the minister: is it this government's policy that parents whose children need surgery must seek and obtain publicity to ensure timely operations for serious conditions?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the case that I particularly recall, and I look to the member, was involving surgery that did take place out of province. Is this the case? It is a different case that I am thinking of. One of the experiences I share with him as an MLA, from time to time patients' conditions worsen, and they often do not make their treating physician aware enough to have them moved up on the priority list.

There is also sometimes difficulty that you have a rash of requirements for beds that again mean those most urgent have access to surgery or beds, and you cannot always control that. There will never be a capacity that can take everything into account in a hospital system. There never has been anywhere in the world and there is never likely to be, but you manage. You manage to be able to accommodate all in acceptable fashion, and the member opposite talks about 10 years of neglect. I would imagine if he went back 10 years--

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Praznik: If he went back 11 years, he would find many of the same stories because of the actions of his party in government.

Mr. Clif Evans (Interlake): Madam Speaker, my question is also for the Minister of Health. We on this side of the House first raised the issue of Betaseron coverage for MS patients in 1995. Again, last December, I raised the issue relating to a constituent of mine, Mrs. Verna Hryhorchuk, who suffers from this very deadly disease. It is now seven months, and still Mrs. Hryhorchuk and others like her are waiting for treatment for this very serious illness.

Given that MS sufferers have had to wait, first for the committee process, then for the implementation and then for a doctor to return from a conference, how can this minister justify this delay that now may render some MS patients ineligible for the program because their disease has progressed too far?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I would love to be able to provide medical care without doctors, but it is not possible. The member well knows, because we have discussed these cases in great detail in Estimates, that we put in place the funding for the drug. It was $1.7 million this year, if memory serves me correctly. The staff were hired. The nurses were trained. The initial assessments were done. I understand Dr. Auty began at the beginning of June. He was away for a period. He is back I believe on the 26th. Appointments have been scheduled and the program is underway.

The MS Clinic is the place that has the expertise with which to do this. They had two doctors. They now have one. They are in the process of recruiting others to work there. That is something that no minister or government controls, but the dollars and the support for the program have been in place since late winter, early spring.

Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): Madam Speaker, victims of hepatitis C are getting sicker and poorer while they wait for compensation, and I refer to those both outside the window and those who on March 27, 1998, were promised compensation. We know that the Minister of Health has abandoned those who were infected before 1986, but I want to ask the minister today how much longer victims of hepatitis C, those on the right side of the minister's tracks, must wait for their compensation.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, what a twisting of facts the member brings to this House. Ministers across this country, indeed governments across this country, approved the program for the window group '86 to '90. It requires two things to be done. It requires the program to be negotiated with the group involved, although the member opposite would have it imposed, I am sure, on them whether they like it or not because that is the logical inference of her question. Secondly, it requires the approval of the courts.

So, Madam Speaker, if the member is suggesting that we just did a unilateral payout without going through the process or involving those people, I am sure that they would not appreciate that kind of assistance or advice. They have a role to play in it. That negotiation has to go on, and it has to have the approval of the courts.

Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): Madam Speaker, my question is also for the Minister of Health. One of my constituents from Cranberry Portage is suffering from extreme pain in the lower back. He is unable to work, under a great deal of stress and very depressed. He has been told that, because of a long waiting list, he will have to wait four months before a scan of his lower back is possible. What does the minister suggest I tell my constituent who is even now on the verge of physical and mental collapse?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I know that the waiting lists for CT scans in--certainly with the additional resources we put down has come down considerably from the four months that the member is referencing. Perhaps it is a matter of working out where they are intending to get the scan. Those lists are coming down because of the additional resources that we have put in.

Mr. Conrad Santos (Broadway): To the Minister of Health. Last September, this Tory government announced with great fanfare that $76,500 would be spent on staff in order to bring down the waiting list for bone density testing. Yet, already by December, after the money was spent, there was a new waiting list of several hundred people requiring this testing. Staring at this naked fact, the Health minister admitted this was unacceptable and said: "We want to ensure that we do not have another list grow."

Yet, earlier this week, this minister again admitted to the media that more people are coming back to the list. We will be putting these resources to bringing back that list again, he said again. Question: when will this government put an end to this endless yo-yo effect and implement a comprehensive waiting list strategy as any politically responsible, responsive and accountable provincial government would do?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, any government that is going to be a responsible administration--and the history of this province has shown that some have tended to be very far from that, both in what they delivered and how they spent taxpayers' money, but it is to find the right amount of resources and to budget appropriately. One of the difficulties in that particular area is a growing demand for that service. We took care of the backlog. The list came up. There was unexpected demand. It has, as we have indicated, stabilized the list, and we are actually putting more resources in now and have been for several months to bring that list back down to where we think--and we are advised--it should be an acceptable waiting list for that particular procedure.

I answered that question actually just the other day in the House, I believe. We had the same discussion.

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Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, it is very interesting listening to the minister's excuses as we went through Question Period.

In 1990, the government had a report to build 1,600 personal care home beds in Manitoba by 1996. By the government's own count, they were only at 400, and that is in Winnipeg. In fact, the Premier (Mr. Filmon) in the last election in 1995 promised those beds. One of the reasons we have these waiting lists is because they broke their promise, and they did not implement--[interjection] Why did the Premier not implement the 1990 report that recommended those beds be constructed by 1996?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I appreciate the member's question because what it brings into context is what this province has been going through, because for many, many years in this province members opposite could care less about what was spent, put the province into a position where we were spending millions of dollars every year that we needed in health, needed in education, needed in family services, that we were sending for interest payments, and this government, being responsible, with no support from members opposite, balanced the budget for the first time in decades and ensured--

An Honourable Member: Voted against it.

Mr. Praznik: They voted against it, and they ensured--and we all knew that there would be difficulties in doing that, but the province had to go through that so we would have a future. If we had followed their course, this province would be bankrupt and we would have no health care, Madam Speaker.

Can the minister, who has just announced a grand scheme to have something called the central bed registry, a trauma centre at the Health Sciences Centre, and amalgamation of emergency services, explain to this House why those recommendations which came on June 26, 1991, July 1992 and July 1993, those same recommendations were not implemented for seven years and now they are promising again before another provincial election to implement those same recommendations that have not been put in place for six years?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I can tell the member why those things did not happen as quickly as they should have. They did not happen because in the city of Winnipeg we had a diffuse system of governments, of every hospital protecting its turf and negotiating. Now, when we have the courage to do the right thing and create the regional health authority, the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) does not have the courage to support the mechanisms that get the job done, and he hides and runs from that problem.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, a new question to the minister or the Premier (Mr. Filmon).

In light of the last answer by the minister, perhaps the minister can turn his mind to this subject and explain to the people of Manitoba, who have the longest waiting lists in ultrasounds, MRIs and CAT scans in the country--based on the minister's own briefing notes provided publicly--perhaps they can explain why imaging, which is a provincial responsibility and has got nothing to do with the hospitals' centralization, why he has a report from January 1995 and another--two reports from January 1995 that recommend the immediate purchase of a second MRI, a reduction of the CAT scans in Winnipeg, a reduction of the ultrasounds in Winnipeg, make specific recommendations to be put in place by '95-96 to reduce those waiting lists when you have not done it and you are still promising it, Madam Speaker?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the MRIs are in the ground today. They will be opening shortly. They are being built.

The member talks about imaging. Well, it is interesting, when you look at how imaging was organized and operated, that Dr. Blake McClarty has been able to bring that down without purchasing new equipment just by reorganizing how it is delivered. What I found so troubling about the New Democratic Party's position is they expect things to be done, but they refuse to support the tools that are necessary to do them, and they hide in the old world like the dinosaurs that they are.

Madam Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.