Mr. Chairperson (Ben Sveinson): Order, please. Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This section of the Committee of Supply will be considering the Estimates of the Department of Northern Affairs. Does the honourable Minister of Northern Affairs have an opening statement?
Hon. David Newman (Minister of Northern Affairs): I do.
Mr. Chair, I am very pleased to present the 1998-99 Estimates of Manitoba Northern Affairs. We have had a year of change and progress and expect to tackle some important challenges in our efforts to fulfill the department's vision. I am guided by and see--and guide our actions along this vision statement which is to improve the quality of life of northern and aboriginal Manitobans to a level consistent with that of all Manitobans. Our priorities, which like our vision transcend the limits of fiscal years, are to do things differently than we have in the past. The priorities are closely linked to basic facts about the North.
Northern and aboriginal Manitobans rank among our most disadvantaged citizens with respect to quality of life and participation in Manitoba society. We cannot truly enjoy a high quality of life until all our citizens participate fully in society. Our efforts to secure this status for the North must be supported by skilled human resources, long-term viability of essential social programs and services and investments in infrastructure and community development and innovation. Exercising control over local governments is a crucial part of the process of having community leaders take responsibility for the health of their communities. Accordingly, in the next three years we will assist up to 29 Northern Affairs communities to become more self-reliant and take charge of their own local futures to a greater extent. The communities will be given the control and decision-making responsibility for their own administration and the resources they need to be self-reliant.
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My department conducted an extensive study of the future requirements to maintain the current infrastructure and to continue to operate the present level of municipal services in northern communities. As part of this process, we examined the municipal systems of four other provinces, federal Indian Affairs and Manitoba municipalities. Our priorities for implementing self-reliance to a greater extent are to ensure that responsibility and control is placed at the local level and at the same time that communities will have the capacity to provide sustainable municipal services in the future. Our guiding principles are intended to be simple and understandable. In the next few months, we will be shaping the way we will work with the communities in this Sustainable Communities initiative. We will be determining what expertise we will need to obtain and proceed to meet these requirements as soon as possible.
Mr. Chair, I have met with mayors and councillors of a number of individual remote communities. In addition, I met last summer and just before Christmas with northern mayors and councils in a body in a workshop kind of format. I believe, and said, that governance is not just about municipal infrastructure, the equipment for municipal services, but also, and especially, is about personal development and education and involves many different disciplines in the process of moving towards a healthy, vibrant community. It is about social conditions in communities, the health of the citizens, the education of the children, recreation and other human things that produce and sustain a community's quality of life. It is also about taking charge of the machinery and responsibility for administering communities. It is about ownership of and responsibility and accountability for decisions that are made and processes that are established.
We have identified eight communities. The eight communities involved in the initiative in the first fiscal year are Bissett, Camperville, Cormorant, Island Lake, Pikwitonei, Pine Dock, Wabowden and Waterhen. Through higher Treasury Board allocations, we are increasing overall municipal grants by $500,000. The funding will be sufficient to ensure the sustainability of municipal services for the following areas: competitive salaries to attract or retain qualified staff, capability for staff development to meet ever-changing technology, adequate funding to ensure environmental health and safety standards are met, and flexibility to meet unexpected expenditures and emergencies such as water main breaks. Councils will assume a shared responsibility for the costs of services. They will develop and monitor accountability and performance standards.
In the past year, Mr. Chair, my staff have worked to prepare the communities for autonomy. They provided support to train community employees. As examples, 27 persons qualified in cardiopulmonary resuscitation and first-aid. More than 200 hours of one-on-one training was given to community clerks to improve job knowledge and skills. A community constable was given a week of special training. Several water and waste plant operators attended a special seminar to upgrade their knowledge and skills and attain provincial standards in their fields.
Mr. Chair, 90 percent of the capital projects approved for last year were executed directly by the effect of communities with some help from the department. This represents a major achievement in communities taking on capital responsibility. In addition, 95 percent of them are already participating in long-term planning which will provide the basis for them developing their own business plans in the coming years.
In the past, the department monitored the administration, finances and staff of the northern communities, but my intent is that the traditional historical role of the department, and specifically the Local Government Development Division, will shift. As the community grows, the division will become more the adviser, facilitator, motivator and liaison with all provincial government departments and other governments and organizations and less the hands-on doer. This is a natural process of vision, evolution and change, and through it I believe we in our northern communities can accomplish great things together.
In addition, a co-ordinated effort and commitment from other government departments and agencies will help give communities the ability to determine priorities and develop economic initiatives and strategies for community development. My department will work with northern residents, communities and other stakeholders to build a strategic approach to northern development through individual community development and partnerships. This approach is intended to work in conjunction with the sustainable community initiative.
In support of this goal, Northern Affairs and Rural Development will host a special northern community development workshop on April 30 and May 1 at the 1998 Rural Forum in Brandon. The seminars at the workshop comprised presentations and discussions on northern challenges and opportunities. They also focused on potential strategies and process that may provide for community input in northern development decision making and priority setting. It was quite interesting, Mr. Chair, that there was very significant representation from the Northwest Territories, and in particular the emerging territory of Nunavut, both youth and political leadership and community leadership.
Mr. Chair, I believe one of the most important things we can achieve together is the building of social capital for the future. We need to ensure a healthy sustainable future for all our communities--northern, rural and urban--in economic and social terms. Our government has decided to develop policies and programs that focus on building social capital in communities and has adopted a set of guiding principles for such initiatives. I would like to outline them.
An initiative must have a community-driven focus and be designed to put the community in the driver's seat; in other words, the service or program must be driven by the community it serves and meet needs as outlined by the community. The service, program or initiative must have sustainable outcomes. It must enhance the ability of the group or community to function independently and ensure that this state of affairs can continue in the future. The government's role in this matter must be that of facilitator or resource provider. We can support an initiative, and we can help bring potential partners together and help put together a service, program or solution to a challenge, but we should not be and will not be the one solely responsible in financial or operational terms.
The primary focus of the initiative will be on individual and community development, which I will call the fundamental solution. The secondary focus is on specific issues relating to the initiative.
Programs and policies must incorporate a holistic strategy; they must have economic, social and spiritual elements. The community must be invited to participate in policy development at the beginning of the initiative in order to be a true partner.
Services must be inclusive, accessible, effective, comprehensive, responsive, and accountable to children, families and communities.
The focus of a service, program and initiative is to be prevention and early intervention. If we can act to prevent a problem or tackle it at an early stage, we can reduce the costs of that problem to society in general and the community in particular and devote resources and efforts more productively.
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Finally, all possible areas of partnership should be explored. This means aboriginal communities and organizations, departments and agencies of the provincial and federal governments, other levels of government, the business community and other parts of the private sector.
I want to note some pertinent comments Royal Bank Executive Vice-President Charlie Coffee at the recent Metis National Council symposium in Winnipeg. He said there is much to gain from building relationships between aboriginal peoples, governments and the corporate sector. To this he added that we need to find new ways to forge partnerships among the leaders in our community to achieve shared goals and tangible, measurable results.
I would now like to turn to specific policies and programs in my department and other departments that focus on building social capital and forging partnerships to achieve results.
Partners for Careers is one example of an attempt to develop a partnership with the corporate sector. It is a partnership of the Native Affairs Secretariat, Education and Training, and Human Resources Development Canada. It has placed over 325 aboriginal graduates in careers in its first year and expects to increase this number in the coming year, while strengthening partnerships between the business community and the aboriginal community. The program is operated by two aboriginal organizations: the Centre for Aboriginal Human Resource Development and the Canadian Council for Aboriginal Business. Partners for Careers is a significant achievement, something we hope to build on this year.
Mr. Chair, I would like to share some quotes taken from evaluation interviews with a grad placement and a business where a grad was placed. First from a placement: We must get the message to students that there are so many opportunities out there. Partners for Careers helps students realize they can benefit from opportunities and resources. It feels good to go into a business and see an aboriginal person working there. Having aboriginal people provide service is very positive for businesses. It also helps to broaden awareness in the larger community by having aboriginal workers in the workplace.
And from a business: We recruit on an ongoing basis and are always looking for quality candidates. Partners for Careers provide good-quality resumes. They respond quickly.
The Aboriginal Single Window Initiative in Winnipeg is a partnership between Manitoba and the federal government to provide more co-ordination of programs and services to aboriginal peoples. The Native Affairs Secretariat co-ordinates the provincial input for this initiative.
Since it began last year, Aboriginal Single Window has produced a number of partnership initiatives. Here are two examples: a $5-million program for training aboriginal people living in Winnipeg; and working with Children of the Earth High School to sponsor the development of a book on aboriginal health issues from an urban perspective, Healthy Visions for a Healthier Future, which was launched April 9, 1998, and I commend this book to all of you. It is written by Richard Courchene, and it is what I call the first baby born to the Single Window Initiative that has a real tangible aspect and has been developed by a member of the younger generation and is designed to make a contribution to other young people particularly. It is based on elders and cultural teachings.
Mochikitahwak offers sport and recreation programs and leadership training in remote northern communities over the summer months when children are out of school. Over 1,150 young people participated in last summer's program, and we expect that a similar number will benefit again this summer. The program is supported by the Justice Initiatives Fund, as it has a significant crime prevention benefit for the communities.
In the matter of aboriginal gaming, we have negotiated to establish 29 gaming commissions, representing 31 First Nations. We have also entered into video lottery terminal siteholder agreements with 15 First Nations, involving a total of 331 VLTs on reserves. These VLTs are generating annual net revenues of over $12 million for the participating communities.
In partnership with Industry, Trade and Tourism, Northern Affairs will support a SEED Winnipeg project designed to combat poverty and assist in the renewal of inner-city communities through services that help low-income groups and individuals become financially self-supporting. A major focus will be in assisting aboriginal individuals and groups in developing businesses.
My department works closely with the Children and Youth Secretariat in developing policy and programs or initiatives that will assist aboriginal children and youths. I am pleased that my department has seconded an aboriginal employee to the secretariat. Margo Thomas of our Selkirk office will assist in advancing programs and initiatives that are culturally appropriate for northern Manitoba and aboriginal people.
The department has assisted the Manitoba Round Table on Environment and Economy in the development of the urban aboriginal strategy. This will be a guide to government for policy and programs related to inner-city Winnipeg and for all other individuals, families, agencies, and other governments who relate in any way to the aboriginal people in the urban area of Winnipeg.
Our government has pledged financial support to the Manitoba Aboriginal Sport and Recreation Council in their bid to bring the North American Indigenous Games to Winnipeg in the year 2001 or 2002. The site selection committee is expected to make a decision this summer and will be visiting the city the weekend after next, I believe, with a view to doing due diligence with respect to the Winnipeg bid.
Manitoba continues to support the Winnipeg Native Alliance outreach program to help aboriginal youth to avoid gangs and seek more positive lifestyles. The founder of this initiative, Troy Rupert, received an award in 1997 for his efforts in assisting aboriginal youth in Winnipeg.
Manitoba experiences the second highest rate of missing children in Canada as well as the highest runaway rate per capita in Canada. A large proportion of these children are aboriginal. We are assisting the Ganawenimig, which means taking care, Safety and Prevention Program of Child Find Manitoba. This is a multifaceted program of preventive measures, education, advocacy, searching and reuniting children, where appropriate, with family, social and psychological supports.
My department hosted a three-day community recreation assessment and planning workshop involving staff and partnering the Department of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship and 16 community leaders and recreation directors. The workshop provided important direction and recommendations upon which we can continue to improve this essential community-based program.
Benchmarks and key indicators is a department-led initiative to develop a system of macro level benchmarks and key indicators in partnership with provincial, federal, and civic government departments which reflect our collective progress in Manitoba toward a better quality of life for aboriginal Manitobans.
The Employment First initiative is helping to improve opportunities for persons to becoming employed and to reducing welfare costs. The program helps employment and income assistance clients find opportunities to work and achieve their potential. Through partnerships with Family Services and community councils, we use social benefits to help clients develop job skills, gain work experience, and contribute to their community. As a result of the programs, 74 recipients have found work with community councils, four have found permanent jobs, and 12 have left social assistance.
We have three tables or forums for tripartite negotiations. The Native Affairs Secretariat leads in those negotiations that involve the Manitoba Metis Federation, the Aboriginal Council of Winnipeg for the city, and Sioux Valley, in a community-based self-government process. The federal government is represented at the MMF and ACW tables by the Privy Council office and in Sioux Valley by Indian Affairs.
Mr. Chair, the tripartite process with the MMF and the federal government deals with a wide range of issues of concern and priorities identified by the Metis people in Manitoba. They include economic development, education and training, housing, children and youth, family services, health, justice and natural resources. The goal of this process is consistent with the provincial policies of enhancing sustainability and building capacity in social capital.
We are also proud to participate with the MMF in establishing the Louis Riel Institute. This is a unique institution that emerged from the tripartite process. It was incorporated by provincial legislation, and its authority includes advocacy, education and training. The tripartite process with the Aboriginal Council of Winnipeg and the federal government is a new initiative which began in 1997-98. This forum will address issues identified as priorities by the aboriginal people of Winnipeg in consultations conducted by the ACW and the Urban Aboriginal Strategy. These are employment training and economic development, children and youth, health and wellness, and justice. The objective is to develop practical, effective solutions to the priority needs of the urban aboriginal community. Some aboriginal institutions have already been developed and are providing unique and innovative services for their clients in Winnipeg. Examples are the Aboriginal Health and Wellness Centre, Aboriginal Legal Services of Winnipeg and the Aboriginal Business Centre. In 1998-99, one of the priorities is to develop a proposal for a multipurpose youth centre in the Winnipeg core area.
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The Sioux Valley process involves Manitoba and Indian Affairs with the Sioux Valley First Nation in community-based self-government negotiations. Manitoba is guided in this process by the Manitoba policy on First Nations government. The objective is to achieve a self-governing community through federal enabling legislation which would replace the Indian Act.
Mr. Chair, as members know, we made important progress in the past year in treaty land entitlement and Northern Flood Agreement negotiations. In TLE, we have taken a proactive approach toward resolving outstanding entitlements and related Manitoba obligations under the 1929-1930 Manitoba Natural Resources Transfer Agreement. All 26 bands in Manitoba with validated outstanding claims have now entered into agreements with Manitoba and the federal government to address their claims. Since 1994, seven bands have signed individual TLE agreements. Last May 29, Canada, Manitoba, and the Treaty Land Entitlement Committee of Manitoba, which represents 19 bands, signed a TLE Framework Agreement in Opaskwayak. These bands are now in the process of ratifying this agreement.
Six bands have ratified the agreement to date. Of these, Rolling River, led by Chief Dennis Whitebird, and Buffalo Point, led by Chief John Thunder, signed individual treaty entitlement agreements under the framework agreement, March 1998. The other four bands are expected to sign similar agreements in the near future. The implementation of the framework agreement will see up to 1.1 million acres of land transferred to Canada by Manitoba to be set aside as reserve land.
Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas): Mr. Chairman, I wonder if I can ask the minister how long he is going to be in his opening statement, because he has been at it for over half an hour now, and our intention was that we were going to try and finish this department by the end of the workday. So I do not mean to be disrespectful. Just maybe we could hurry it up a little bit.
Mr. Chairperson: We have gone on for 20 minutes.
Mr. Newman: I will be another five minutes maximum.
The implementation of the framework agreement will see up to--this amount represents less than 1 percent of Manitoba's land base. In addition, up to $76 million will be provided by Canada as a cash component of the settlement. It is expected that this agreement will provide TLE bands with an opportunity to become more self-reliant and will increase their capacity to establish partnerships with other bands, communities, companies and other Manitobans. These settlements are expected to facilitate increased and improved economic and social development with a view to building healthy and sustainable communities. The settlement of these outstanding land issues will also result in increased opportunities for businesses and companies, especially those in the mining and forestry sectors, by creating an improved environment of certainty in land tenure in Manitoba.
Under the Northern Flood Agreement, Mr. Chair, four comprehensive settlements relating to outstanding claims have been completed to date. The signatory bands are Nelson House, Norway House, Split Lake and York Factory. The agreements are in the implementation stage with settlement proceeds flowing to the bands. The total settlement proceeds related to the agreements are approximately $220 million, of which about $125 million will be maintained in band trusts to fund NFA implementation from investment income. The funds are spent on community-approved initiatives such as infrastructure, social, cultural and economic development programs. These agreements will put the capacity to be healthy communities in the hands of the four NFA bands by giving control of the settlement funds directly to the people.
The compensation land given to the bands totals about 160,000 acres which will be transferred to reserve, adding to the band's land base. In addition, 4,800 acres in fee-simple land is being selected by the bands to be held by land corporations established under the agreements. Several institutions and boards have been created as a result of the implementation work of the various bands. These include development corporations and resource co-management boards. Three resource co-management boards have been created as part of these settlements and the fourth is in the process of appointing representatives. These boards are joint efforts between the bands and the province to develop and recommend land use and resource management plans for the specific resource management areas established under each of the agreements.
Manitoba is working towards resolving its NFA obligations to Cross Lake as we have done with the other four First Nations. In a March 16, 1998, letter to Manitoba Hydro, Cross Lake indicated that they were engaged in further community discussion, consultation and strategic development and felt it would not be productive to meet. Mr. Chair, I have communicated to Cross Lake that I am prepared to wait for the results of this process and review any reasonable proposal that may result from the community review.
At this time, we are waiting to learn from the First Nation their views and ideas for NFA implementation pursuant to the 1977 agreement. We are also working to resolve longstanding issues with Fox Lake First Nation, including land and hydro development impacts. We have entered into discussions with the band regarding these issues and propose that a framework for negotiations be developed so that the parties can understand what has been discussed to date and what still has to be covered.
Mr. Chair, I would like to express a personal point or two about the future. Bringing northern residents and aboriginal peoples into the mainstream of our economic, political, policy making and social processes is a challenge. I welcome it personally, and as a Manitoba minister know that it is consistent with our history as the bridge between peoples, geographic sections and ideas in Canada. This, we should remember, is a function we inherited from the Metis people.
I intend to build on the roles I have assumed and apply my own style to the tasks I have taken on: things like meeting, talking with and working with northern aboriginal leaders with a value-driven vision and those who want to move forward; developing and maintaining effective working relationships with federal ministers; working with organizations, communities, other departments and other governments to break down or bypass barriers to achieve realistic solutions to current challenges; facilitating relationships and partnerships with the business community; developing and expressing a vision of where we are going and where we should be going and where our partners want to go; facilitating the unleashing of the enormous unrealized potential in northern and aboriginal communities, especially in aboriginal youth that could be used to build sustainable communities for future generations.
Mr. Chair, the programs and process I have outlined will lead to sustainable community development in an integrated holistic way. We are confident that enabling the citizens of these communities to take an active role in meeting the economic, social--including health, education and employment--and environmental needs will improve the future for their children in northern Manitoba.
Finally, Mr. Chair, I would like to thank my new deputy minister, Oliver Boulette, and his staff for their dedicated work in the past year as we prepared and embarked on processes that will produce great changes in northern Manitoba. They have helped me to communicate my points of view to northern residents and to learn the views and life experiences of the North and aboriginal peoples. I look forward to building on the work we have accomplished and strengthening the initiatives now in progress.
I would also like to recognize the excellent work done by Harvey Bostrom and his team at the Native Affairs Secretariat and Jeff Polakoff in agreements and administration who has now become the Assistant Deputy Minister of Northern Affairs replacing Oliver Boulette, who has been promoted to deputy minister of both Energy and Mines and Northern Affairs and responsible for Native Affairs. Thank you.
Mr. Chairperson: We thank the Minister of Northern Affairs for those comments. Does the official opposition critic, the honourable member for The Pas (Mr. Lathlin), have an opening statement?
Mr. Lathlin: Mr. Chairman, I do not really have a text that I can read from as far as making an opening statement goes. Well, first of all, I wanted to also thank the minister for his rather lengthy opening statement. I would also extend congratulations to Oliver for having been appointed deputy minister. Oliver and I went to the same school in Cranberry, and I am not going to say too much about how he behaved in school other than to say that he was a good student, I think, Oliver? And Harvey, I have known Harvey from even before I came here eight years ago. I also thank him for his dedication to his work at Northern Affairs and also congratulate Jeff for having been promoted to the ADM level.
I just wanted to say, Mr. Chair, that Oliver probably remembers some eight years ago, when I first sat here in 1991 and I am going through my first Estimates, it was a new process for me at the time, but I was very interested in listening to goals and objectives, statements and mission statements, and how things were going to be achieved and so on. Certainly the planning documents were there, the mission statements were there and so forth.
Of course, I am not entirely immune to that kind of process, having done it myself at the band level, at OCN, when I was chief, making long-term plans and medium and short term and having to develop our own mission statements and goals and objectives and so forth. So I was at the time impressed with all these varying good statements that were put on record by the then Minister of Northern Affairs Mr. Downey. I thought maybe I was a little bit naive too at the time, but I thought this kind of stuff that I see here will be good for aboriginal people, particularly those who reside in the North.
Mr. Chair, like I give credit where credit is due. I give credit to the government for having entered into partnership programs with aboriginal people and other levels of government within the city of Winnipeg, because everyone knows that that has been long overdue. So I give where credit is due; I am not afraid to do that.
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I would also bring to the minister's attention again the statements that I have read in this year's budget documents. I have even listened to him again this morning, lots of nice words, working to bring aboriginal people into the mainstream, value driven, except I had listened to those words, and I had read those words in the spring of '91 when I first had to sit through this process.
In a little while we will be going through the budget, but I was going through some historical information and preparing for this process here this morning. For me, if we were really going to tackle the problems that face our people up North, particularly those who are Metis in the community councils, I have always said to the people that the community councils of the Metis people have been the ones who have kind of been left on the sidelines while First Nations might have been making a lot of progress in their development.
So I have always viewed the Department of Northern Affairs as being a critical department hoping that it will, for example, increase in budget, maybe broaden its scope of responsibility, perhaps decentralize more and more responsibility to the communities--and I will get into that a little later on. But let me just say that I want to co-operate with the minister as he goes about in his job as Minister of Northern Affairs. I would also like to say that just because I am willing to co-operate with him does not mean that I have to keep quiet like a nice little boy and be afraid to upset him, because as I see it--let me put it this way, I see myself as not just a member of the Legislative Assembly representing a riding which happens to be largely aboriginal. I see myself as a representative of my people here in this Legislature, the aboriginal people, First Nations and Metis people, because we all consider ourselves as being one. So whenever I discuss issues from time to time, yes, I will disagree with a minister because there are issues, I think, that have been outstanding for a long time and they need to be resolved.
The last thing that I want to say, Mr. Chair, is I do not know if you were here last year in Estimates, but I had asked then that the format that I am more comfortable in following is just to go through general questions, and then at the end go through the budget line by line. So I would ask the minister again this year to see if he would allow us to do that so we can get into general questioning right away. I would like to give my colleague a little bit of time to make his comments. Thank you.
Mr. Chairperson: We thank the critic of the official opposition for those remarks.
Mr. Newman: Thank you for those remarks. I was here last year, and we agreed on that approach last year. I certainly am prepared to agree again this year. I think that is a very useful approach to follow.
Mr. Chairperson: Agreed? [agreed] Under Manitoba practice, debate of the Minister's Salary is traditionally the last item considered for the Estimates of the department. Accordingly, we shall defer consideration of this item and now proceed with consideration of the next line.
Before we do that, we invite the minister's staff to join us at the table, and we ask that the minister introduce his staff present.
Mr. Newman: I would like to introduce my deputy minister, Oliver Boulette; Assistant Deputy Minister Jeff Polakoff; director of Native Affairs Secretariat, Harvey Bostrom; and Lorraine Macauley who is budget administration out of the northern office.
Mr. Lathlin: I think where I would like to start this morning is with Manitoba Hydro. I know the minister referenced the Cross Lake chief and council, but I would like to ask him to maybe give us just a little more information as to what the status is between Cross Lake, Manitoba and the issue of Northern Flood Agreements.
Mr. Newman: The status is that the Cross Lake band, through its leadership, has not yet come forward with a proposal pursuant to the consultation process they identified in their March 16, 1998, letter, but they have initiated or participated in a discussion as recently as yesterday through their vice-chief and councillors and several elders. Involved in that discussion were the chairman of the board of Hydro, the president of Hydro and myself.
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Mr. Lathlin: Perhaps I do not really have too many questions on the Northern Flood issue, but I would just like to maybe ask the minister--I asked the question once in the House when I was querying him on, I believe negotiating in good faith was the subject. I had asked him a question something to the effect that if he was negotiating in good faith, how come, for example, the issue of the all-weather road, the bridge, had been appealed I think for the third time now. I know I asked this question of the previous Minister of Northern Affairs, Mr. Praznik, in one of our meetings. As a matter of fact, I think my colleague from Rupertsland was here at the time when, right in the middle of our discussions one of his senior staff came in with a piece of paper, gave it to the Minister of Northern Affairs, after which the minister happily made the announcement that it appears now we are on our way to getting an agreement. What we will have to do now is ask our people to get their heads together and iron out an agreement, which I was led to believe, rather than having to resort to going back to the arbitrator or appealing the arbitrator's decision. So we left it.
I felt confident that the issue was going to be resolved for all--the minister at the time was quite jubilant here when he made the announcement--only to find out later on that, instead of being negotiated, it had gone to the appeal stage again. So my question this morning would be, and I know he has answered this in the House once before, but it is a little different, I think, answering questions in the House, but today I would like to ask him: What is the real issue there in terms of not agreeing with the arbitrator and having to appeal it time and time again? As I said to the previous minister, are we going to appeal this till the end of time, or is there ever going to be a point where a decision will be made as far as that bridge goes?
Mr. Newman: I am glad that you have brought this into this forum because it allows the opportunity for more discussion than Question Period does in the Assembly because of the constraints of time there.
Let me give a general answer first to say that I have told the leadership of Cross Lake that this is an issue that, under my leadership as minister, has not been, with my direction and my knowledge, addressed at the table. I have invited this issue, if it is a priority issue, in spite of the court process, which is intended to clarify the quantum, the methodology for determining the quantum of compensation which is at hand--and that is the forum chosen by the parties to do that--but in spite of all of that, which can run its course and play its appropriate role, I have indicated to all of the people negotiating for the Province of Manitoba that I am prepared to have them discuss and try and come to a resolve on all of the issues relating to what I call the "all-weather road issue." So, if the leadership of Cross Lake in their considered proposal, after consultation with the community, says that is something that they want to look at and that they do want a bridge, we will look at that.
I understand from my discussions with the community members who have spoken to me voluntarily, that they may or may not be where they want that kind of amount of resources directed, because my understanding is that a bridge would cost in the order of $10 million to $12 million. They may or may not want that to be the priority to which those kinds of resources are directed. The short answer is I welcome that issue to be brought to the table and discussed when the community is ready to discuss it and have prioritized that and indicated that is what they want.
Mr. Lathlin: Mr. Chair, perhaps I can ask the minister whether this issue of the bridge is still with the arbitrator. Where is it at now? I mean, if it is at the arbitrator's level and if he is willing to discuss that with the community, what implications will that have on any proposed discussions?
Mr. Newman: The matter is currently before the Manitoba Court of Appeal. The principal grounds of appeal would be that the arbitrator failed to determine the extent to which one of the recommendations under the agreement constitutes compensation for adverse effects of the project. So it is before the Court of Appeal.
Mr. Lathlin: Okay, it still has to do with Hydro, Mr. Chairman. I would like to now go over to Grand Rapids and ask the minister: how many Hydro employees are there in Grand Rapids approximately? I do not want the exact number.
Mr. Newman: I am going to have some difficulty with this because I of course do not have Hydro people here. This is not part of my Northern Affairs budget or Estimates. Normally when I am questioned with respect to Manitoba Hydro and the employees in their budget, that is done under another standing committee, as you can appreciate. So I do not have that information readily available to me, and I would not want to guess at the numbers of employees of Manitoba Hydro there. Maybe as you proceed with questioning, that may or may not become relevant in terms of accuracy, but that is the best I can do.
Mr. Lathlin: Mr. Chair, I realize that the Hydro staff are not here. The minister is still responsible for Manitoba Hydro. In that regard then I would maybe ask him to see if he would mind getting back to me with that piece of information. That information that I was asking for was the number of employees there are in Grand Rapids. Maybe while he is doing that, the minister could also categorize in terms of how many permanent employees and how many casual or rotating employees. So I will go on.
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Mr. Newman: I will take that under advisement.
Mr. Lathlin: Mr. Chair, in Grand Rapids, there is a place called the hybord. It is like a little Hydro town or a village. I know, because I was there once on summer employment when I was a student. One of my jobs was to mow the lawn on those 24 houses that are in hybord. It was always a big job, because there were 24 houses. I lived in the staff house. There is a staff house there right close to the hybord, and that is where I lived when I was working for Hydro as a summer student. That is quite a while ago too.
Since then, there has been another building that has gone up at the hybord. I have seen it, and it is a pretty impressive building. When I first drove in there, at first I thought it was a big church. I started asking around, you know, like what it was, and I was told that it was the staff house. Of course my first reaction was: staff house, why do these guys need a staff house here? There are 24 houses here already, and there is an apartment block right across the road from the hybord as well as four other individual houses. So besides the 24 individual houses plus the four across the road from those 24, plus the apartment, we have quite a bit of housing there. So my question was why did Hydro build this additional staff house?
Mr. Newman: Once again, I do not consider this to be relevant to the discussions that are here, in a technical sense. This is not the proper forum to be dealing with matters which Hydro would normally be available to answer on their own behalf through me in the standing committee mandated to deal with that. I do not want to be technical, and I am prepared to hear these questions without making it a point of order, but I simply am not in a position to answer these questions.
If your purpose, by putting them on the record, is to raise them as matters which cause you and the aboriginal community concern, or even as a stakeholder as one of the consumers and owners of Manitoba Hydro, I can assure you I will be looking into any issues you raise in that respect, as I always do, and respond to you and at the same time formulate my own judgments as to the desirability or propriety or whatever might be an issue. I will do so wearing my hat as the representative of the owners and consumers of Manitoba Hydro, namely, all the people of Manitoba and, in this case, apparently the people of the Grand Rapids area.
Mr. Lathlin: Mr. Chairman, I apologize to the minister for raising those issues. Perhaps I could raise them in Question Period or write him a letter, and hopefully he will give me the answers in that forum.
Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland): I do have a few questions of the minister. I appreciated his comments on some of the things that he outlined for us for the department that he is responsible for. The communities that he was talking about, the eight communities that he was talking about, particularly interested me. I wonder if he could further describe exactly what these eight communities have embarked upon with respect to, as I believe the minister said, taking charge of their own communities. I wonder if he would describe as to how these communities, including Bissett and I believe he said Waterhen and others, are going to proceed in achieving just that, taking charge of their own communities.
Mr. Newman: I will try and be efficient in the way I respond to what is a very big question. As you know, there are presently 52 Northern Affairs communities with a population in total of about 8,000 people, and approximately 29 of those communities have populations that are 75 or over. Of those 52, 38 communities are in self-administering status; 14 communities are in trust status. Significant gains have been made in terms of services and facilities in the Northern Affairs communities. We are talking about basic infrastructure facilities. A value of over $108 million has been invested to improve infrastructure and local facilities. A yearly municipal grant of approximately $5 million has been provided towards the delivery of municipal services.
The background, I think, is the other important part of the context before I get directly into your question. It was in 1966 that the commission of The Northern Affairs Act was enacted by the Manitoba Legislature. The act provided the appointment of a commissioner who was given power similar to a municipality and the responsibility to co-ordinate activities to government in relation to northern Manitoba. Part of that role involved the provision, maintenance and improvement of local services for the benefit of Northern Affairs communities.
It was in 1974 that a new act was passed, and the act charged the Minister of Northern Affairs with responsibilities previously held by the commissioner. The major purpose of the new act was to allow northern communities to become incorporated, self-governing local entities. Although communities did not take advantage of incorporation in the past 23 years, they have, in some cases, proven a capacity and a desire to manifest their increasing independence by seeking to be incorporated, meaning that they would become an entity with obligations and responsibilities on behalf of the people of the community.
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Now with that background and with three sorts of creative tensions--one, the motivation of some communities to become incorporated; secondly, an increasing capacity of communities to become more self-reliant through incorporation; and, thirdly, the philosophy of our government to get better results in terms of healthy, sustainable, more self-reliant communities in the Northern Affairs area and, frankly, in all communities of Manitoba a renewed commitment was made to fill the deficiencies in the legislation of 1974 and the policies that emerged out of that legislation since 1974, to fill the deficiencies which precluded, which mitigated against the emergence of successful incorporated communities. So we opted, rather than having a top-down process, to have a community-driven process. We began by having consultation processes. These were done through the department, driven by members of the department developing an approach, after researching other communities and other jurisdictions and other government policies in other jurisdictions, and then taking that kind of background knowledge and research and going to the communities and consulting with them.
The communities, themselves, expressed the following kinds of priorities towards sustainability: one was concerns about funding for sustainability; another was about economic development; another about community planning; another about land base; another about long-term commitment; and another about funding arrangements being constant for a predictable period of time so that they would have the comfort, that they would have the support system necessary to move forward in a process towards increased self-reliance.
Most recently, we have put together a presentation, pursuant to these consultations, which was launched, given its inaugural showing at the Rural Forum--first of all in a preview way to the communities themselves, and then more broadly at the forum. I might say that I have instructed my staff--and I believe a meeting is being set up so that this same presentation can be delivered in a nonpartisan way to any interested members of the Legislature and their staff in the very near future. My deputy minister assures me that that is being set up and it will be some time during this legislative session, and the sooner the better, so that you will get a full appreciation for the approach that has emerged from the process so far and, indeed, will have input into it because we do not purport it to be perfect, and it can be refined and improved.
The eight communities were selected by the department on the basis of criteria of readiness. Pursuant to that criteria of perceived readiness by the department, based on things like their capacity to administer the budgets within budget and appropriately and their demonstrable capacity to be most likely to be successful if they became incorporated, eight communities were selected, and they have been named. I might say that because of improvements in some of the other communities, I have been urging my staff to take a look at South Indian Lake and Norway House Northern Affairs communities with a view to either adding them to the list or to the extent that some of the eight of those communities do not continue with the same motivation to move forward. They would be replaced with those communities because those two communities have come forward like gangbusters recently in terms of trying to improve their administration and also showing their desire to move toward an incorporated status.
Mr. Robinson: I forgot what I asked the minister. That was quite some time ago. The partnership agreements I am familiar with and also the Partners for Careers. As my colleague the member for The Pas (Mr. Lathlin) indicated, we certainly do commend the efforts whenever it is warranted to the minister and the department that he is responsible for. He also described the other initiatives that are occurring elsewhere in other parts in Manitoba.
There is an initiative, and I do believe that the Native Affairs Secretariat, which the minister is also responsible for to a degree, is working with Nelson Sanderson and others in co-ordinating some workshops to deal with racial discrimination or racism, if I may term it that. I believe it is this Saturday in Brandon and on the following weekend, the 16th, in Dauphin, and the weekend after that in The Pas. I wonder if the minister could describe for me--I know that the province to a degree is also participating in this initiative--perhaps the minister could inform us as to what the intention of these workshops are in these different Manitoba communities?
Mr. Newman: I believe that we are speaking of the same thing, and if we are not, please do not hesitate to interrupt me, but we invested as a province, through our department, $5,000 in an antiracism initiative which was begun at the Friendship Centre at 45 Robinson. I was there at the launch and spent an evening with Nelson Sanderson and the participants. The understanding which caused us to invest the $5,000, which I confirmed at that event, was that this was not just an awareness building process of the still existence of and prevalence of racism directed negatively at aboriginal people, but in addition to just being an awareness building, it was a skill building.
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There was a wonderful skit put on at that particular forum which was an example of what they were going to be doing involving Tina Keeper and others which demonstrated how an aboriginal person who is the victim of what may or may not have been deliberately racial conduct or expression, how to deal with it, not only in terms of skills and deflecting it and perhaps educating a nondeliberate victimization, also showed, if it were obviously deliberate or were going to be persistent, how you could seek recourse through the Human Rights Commission and other means. So it was an awareness, a skill building and an education as to what to do in the event of a perpetration of racism against you or someone you know.
Mr. Robinson: Mr. Chairperson, perhaps, specifically what does the minister and the Native Affairs Secretariat have in mind? Or through this partnership arrangement, which I think is a great idea, what will become of the results on their findings at these Manitoba towns and communities at these workshops that are occurring? The findings, I guess more specifically, what will become of these?
Mr. Newman: I have been advised by my director of the Native Affairs Secretariat that we have not had any requests for any participation or funding in the results which might be received by and be owned by the aboriginal organization. But if we were asked to invest in the publishing or dissemination of a product of this kind of process, that is the kind of thing that we would be very interested in looking at, with a view to supporting a broader dissemination of the successful program.
Mr. Robinson: Mr. Chairman, the minister also described proactive activities like the Mochikitahwak program based out of Thompson and also some other initiatives that are occurring. He also very adequately, I believe, described the health and social conditions of aboriginal people in most communities in the province of Manitoba.
I would like to come back to the urban community, particularly Winnipeg. For a long time, we have had discussion on an urban aboriginal strategy. I am just wondering, based on last year's dialogue we had on this issue, if he could bring us up to date on the latest initiatives with respect to dealing with the urban aboriginal, I might call it, problem, but certainly the dilemma faced by a lot of aboriginal people who had moved to urban areas in Manitoba for one reason or the other. I know he described some initiatives that were occurring, and I just want him to further elaborate on some of these programs that are currently in operation in the city of Winnipeg, for example.
Mr. Newman: The urban aboriginal strategy process, which was initiated under the auspices of the Round Table on Environment and Economy, as it then was, now called the Round Table for Sustainable Development, through a subcommittee called a task force of that round table, has completed the process. The task force was made up of George Campbell as chair, Mary Richard, Professor Thomas Henley, the mayor of the city represented by Danny Vandal, a councillor of the city, and myself.
We completed a process of public gatherings where we got input in a workshop kind of format, and the views of the community were recorded by the community on flip charts. These were all consolidated and then were published in a document called a What You Told Us document. The What You Told Us document then went back to the committee through another gathering process, and what has emerged out of that is a Priorities for Action document, which will be emerging and published over the next month. It is a document that is directed at individuals and families and aboriginal organizations, the city government, the provincial government, the federal government, all the different departments, all charitable and business organizations, and whoever interacts with the urban aboriginal people. So out of that will become a document which is owned by that community and will be an important tool for developing public policy and personal and family approaches to issues affecting aboriginal people in the Winnipeg urban context.
Specifically what is being done for that strategy is published, and what has been done over the past year, I gave a summary of some of the initiatives that have taken place in the city of Winnipeg and can give a more complete listing if that is the intent of the question with an expansion of what some of those programs are about. Is that the wish of the member?
Mr. Robinson: Yes, Mr. Chairperson, if the minister would just provide that, I believe we could leave it at that. I am sure there is accessibility to that report.
Mr. Chairperson: Is it the direction of the member for Rupertsland that he would just like the member to provide it or give it to you now?
Mr. Robinson: Mr. Chairperson, as I understand it there is a prepared document already outlining some of these initiatives.
Mr. David Faurschou, Acting Chairperson, in the Chair
Mr. Newman: The Priorities for Action document, as I say, will be published some time in the next month, if all goes in accordance with the intentions of the task force. That is done through the auspices of the--the secretariat to that task force is the Sustainable Development Co-ordination Unit. Because I am a member of the task force, I am aware of this, so I am aware that it will be published within the next month. So it is not available at this time for public dissemination.
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In terms of the actual programs, I can certainly speak to Partners for Careers that I have already spoken to. I can speak to the Aboriginal Health and Wellness Centre. I can speak to the Aboriginal Legal Services program, which is a restorative justice program, which was announced in the city. I know that you and I were there at the announcement in the Aboriginal Centre when it was one of the most successful events I have ever been at, at the Aboriginal Centre of Winnipeg. You were the very competent emcee, and I was representing the government. It was a celebration of the aboriginal community in the city of Winnipeg being given the freedom and capacity to do, in effect, criminal justice resolutions within parameters in ways that were consistent with the values and aspirations and restorative justice ways of aboriginal people. That kind of thing, I think, is just a wonderful beginning, supplementing the work done by justice committees and diversion projects, where there is a large aboriginal clientele and participation on them. But that would be, in the justice area, the most significant thing that we have lent our support to, and I would say enthusiastic support to.
In the area of health, the Aboriginal Health and Wellness Centre has done a similar kind of thing in the health area that Justice is doing in the justice area. It is bridging the excellence of European medical science with with the excellence of alternative approaches to healing, which are the products of thousands of years of aboriginal history. That office in the Aboriginal Centre of Winnipeg and the effort and the commitment of funds which are just starting to bear some fruit is another, I think, very significant approach, because it tends to mix the best of the modern recorded history world with the best of the unrecorded history teachings and experiences of thousands of years of aboriginal history. So that is another major thematic kind of initiative which is underway with our enthusiastic support.
In the area of economic development, the federal government we have, through the Single Window office, has like our government made available all departmental programs and funding opportunities which are accessible by the aboriginal community, and not only available to them through that office but we have people that are working there representing the provincial government, people there representing the federal government who provide very proactive and very customer-friendly service to anyone that comes in--as a matter of fact, to a degree that I know that I just approved a dedication of time of one of our staff down there to work directly in assisting the Metis, the MMF, virtually on a seconded basis from time to time on a dedicated time period to spend two days of work helping them with their projects and putting them together and gaining an understanding. So that is the kind of outreach, the kind of working partnerships that we are trying to build.
Mr. Chairperson in the Chair
I showed you when you spoke to the Healthy Visions for a Healthier Future, or when I spoke to it, by Richard Courchene, it was of great significance to me when I said that this was a baby born to the Single Window. It was of great significance to me to find that in the foreword to the book on page 1, it is stated by Elaine Issac, BSW, on March 2, 1998, as follows--I quote: in September 1997, Aboriginal Single Window Initiative, a co-operative federal-provincial partnership between Human Resources Development Canada and Native Affairs Secretariat, the provincial government began its auspicious work by funding and supporting developmental projects that would demonstrate an urban aboriginal strategic plan. This book is the culmination of one of the many projects to which they provided valuable endorsement. A special accolade has to be lauded to Lawrie Barkwell for his unfailing guidance and skabe, which in Ojibway traditional tenets means a helper of unconditional faith role to the author.
I really do commend this book to the members. In fact, I will ask Jan Smith of my staff to see that you as the representative of Rupertsland and the representative from The Pas are given a copy, thanks to the taxpayers of Manitoba, but more importantly thanks to Richard Courchene of this book, so that you can see the approach in holistic ways, acting almost like a medium on behalf of elders and cultural teachers. He offers his thoughts as to how the gang problem and other challenging urban issues might be dealt with.
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Another issue of great significance to Winnipeg that we are very much involved in through a variety of ways with our guidance and our staff support is the Niganin project, the Our Place project, which is, you probably are aware through the media, something that Joe Bova and Mary Richard, the president of the Aboriginal Council of Winnipeg, are very much working towards--putting together a design and a concept to convert parts of the downtown core, which have a large aboriginal population, into areas for the celebration of aboriginal people, healing of aboriginal people, homes for aboriginal people, and a centre for aboriginal people to gather. So this, I gather, is emerging towards announcement stage, again, over the next month.
The programs that I mentioned involving SEED Winnipeg are of particular interest because we have supported that as a department, as has Industry, Trade and Tourism. What we are doing there is investing in truly the development of social capital by funding microenterprise projects in sharing circle and lending circle kinds of ways. The Mennonite Central Committee and Assiniboine Credit Union are very much involved in that kind of project, and we have invested in that on behalf of the people of Manitoba. That kind of investment, we believe, is sound and is investing truly in community development and the emergence of not only businesses but the self-esteem and personal development that goes along with being part of working together with others to earn your own livelihood.
Another thing that we have been actively involved in, and I alluded to it, is through sport and recreation. We think that that is a very important way to get youth involved in constructive ways and also to develop skills of citizenship, character-building exercises, truly personal development, and we do that through the programs like the Native Alliance, the Urban Sports Camp. Again, that is a very exciting process because it is a community-owned kind of process. The WDA has funded that kind of program, again, with our providing our support to make sure it is done in appropriate ways in relation to the aboriginal people, and that program will be taken over by the community. A service organization has made the commitment to be the creator of the funding, the body that will ensure sustainable funding once the five years of WDA funding is gone, so it will be then a community-owned approach. The other--[interjection] The honourable member for The Pas (Mr. Lathlin) is getting impatient with my answer. That is why I said interrupt me if I am not hitting the target.
Let me just conclude by saying--so you can put another question--I am also particularly enthusiastic about the North American Indigenous Games, which the aboriginal people of Manitoba are seeking, I might say, collaboratively because this is MMF, it is AMC, it is the Aboriginal Council of Winnipeg and certainly MKO are seeking collaboratively to bring to Winnipeg. It would attract 10,000 people. It would be a tremendous motivational thing to have communities around the province of young people work towards, and that is indeed being done.
There will be a Games in 1999 in Fargo as well, so there is a strategy, a program, developmental, which is being directed for the most part with our support and respect by the Aboriginal Sports Council of Manitoba operating out of 200 Main Street, which derives an enormous amount of support from Jeff Hnatiuk and his Sports Manitoba group.
That is a very exciting area of collaborative progress being made towards a very worthy goal, and the Province of Manitoba has, as the first demonstration of financial commitment to this when they went to Florida to file their application to be considered as a site for the Games, they were competing against Ontario and Quebec. We committed that we would commit to $1 million of funding towards those games, on condition that the feds would match us, and what is enormously powerful about those games is they see them capable of running those games at budget with a budget of $4 million.
We have also indicated that we will work very closely with them to help them raise the funds necessary to make them the most successful games ever held in the North American Indigenous Games history and will also leave a legacy behind in Manitoba that makes enormous contributions to the young people emerging as leaders of the future.
Mr. Lathlin: I am afraid to ask the minister a question here, Mr. Chairman, maybe advise the minister that we normally go for lunch at 12, so should I ask him the question now or--give it a shot. Well, let me ask him a short question then.
In the press release it had said that an additional $1 million for '98-99, for a total of $3.6 million for capital projects were funded, infrastructure development including a water treatment plant at Cormorant and a lagoon at Dawson Bay. My question for the minister would be: No.1, I thought that the project at Cormorant had been finished. It was no longer a capital project, so perhaps the minister was referring to maybe the ONM dollars that is required to maintain the plant at Cormorant.
In any event, I was going to ask him: just exactly what is the status of the Cormorant project? Is it complete, and, if so, why are we calling the funds being allocated as capital? Because to me you give capital funds to build a capital project.
Then the other question, I guess is: this million dollars that is identified in a press release, it mentions two projects; is that just for the two projects from the $1 million?
Mr. Newman: I will be very brief here. The Cormorant project was a multiyear project and my understanding is it will be finished this year. That is just one project which will derive some benefit from these additional capital funds. The simplest way for me to respond to this question very concisely is to give you what is the draft departmental plan as to how to spend the $1 million. The breakdown is between Cross Lake water treatment plant, Dawson Bay sewage lagoon Phase II, Granville Lake water treatment plant and water lines, Ilford water treatment plant upgrade, Nelson House water treatment plant upgrade, South Indian Lake water treatment plant upgrade, Thicket Portage new intake for water, Norway House water treatment plant upgrade, Camperville reservoir fill system, Bissett sewer and water lines Phase I. There will be engineering and design requirements of course for these, but that is the draft allocation and beneficiaries of the $1 million planned.
Mr. Lathlin: I would like to ask the minister, not that long ago I was in Cormorant and an issue was put to me whereby the community council was running short of ONM funds to operate the new plant, I guess, that had been installed in Cormorant. I talked with the community council and they felt that, you know, they were going to wait till maybe the budget time to see if the money that is required to maintain whatever facility exists there now--they were going to wait for the budget year, but I would like to ask the minister: when you install a facility or when there is a capital project like that in Cormorant, of course it runs and you start it up and it requires hydro and needs maintenance, does that automatically follow the project? I mean the ONM funds?
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Mr. Newman: In the case of water and sewer, the answer is yes. With respect specifically to Cormorant and the future ONM funding under the self-reliant communities initiative, of which Cormorant is a part, there will be funding made available to ensure that they will be able to maximize the advantages afforded by the new capital enhancements.
Mr. Lathlin: Maybe one last question for this segment, Mr. Chairperson, and that is--I will make it a short question; I have other questions here, but the minister talked about these communities who are supposed to be at an advanced stage of development and therefore are eligible to go to the next step, and there are certain criteria used for that. Once you get to that, whatever it is, advanced stage, you are eligible to do certain things--like I think you said, salary increases, staff training and development, environment, unforeseen expenses.
So when a community council is at that stage of development, how does the funding work? Does the minister decentralize the funding and the community council then administers the funds, or how does it work?
Mr. Newman: Yes, through agreements.
Mr. Lathlin: Okay. The other question I had was, for example, in staff training and development, again, how would that work? Would those training dollars be transferred to the community, or do you simply ask community council staff to come to places like Thompson, Dauphin or wherever to get training?
Mr. Newman: Consistent with the self-reliant community whole philosophy and value system, they will be given the money. They will be delivered the money, and they will spend that money on training in ways that are most appropriate to give them the training that they need with our full co-operation and support.
Mr. Lathlin: So for a community council like Cormorant, those funds, not just staff training and development, but other things like environmental components, the budget is transferred to the community council, and they administer the funds themselves. For example, in staff training and development, they identify their own training needs and they go and purchase from wherever. Is that right?
Mr. Newman: Yes.
Mr. Lathlin: The other question I had was--I think when I came in here in '90-91, the total budget was $19.582 million, Northern Affairs, and it went up slightly the following year. Then from there it went steadily down. Last year it was $16.9 million, and then because of the million dollars capital that the minister just referenced, the total budget for this year is $17.5 million. Then, of course, prior to 1990 we had total budgets that were $42 million, for example, and then the very next year it was cut in half.
My question would be: if your total budget is going down steadily, does that mean you have a corresponding increase in terms of productivity, and by that I mean trained staff, and you know there is infrastructure in a community and everything is improving on a yearly basis? If the minister is going down in funds, my thinking would be, well, why would the funds go down if there is so much work to be done in terms of development, or is development happening so well that the funds would naturally have to go down because there is nothing there to be paid any more?
Mr. Newman: There are some factors that you have not addressed in your analysis of the different funding over the years. Two factors I will add to that, one is the brokering done by the Northern Affairs department of funds sourced through the Northern Development Agreement in significant ways, and those came through Northern Affairs and flowed through to other departments of government. So that is one factor. Another factor is, because we have now fulfilled more of our Northern Flood Agreements through comprehensive settlements, 80 percent of them, there is less funding through the department in respect to Northern Flood Agreement commitments.
Another factor which you have alluded to is in the transition process. The communities are definitely taking on more responsibility and providing more services themselves, which is a sign of great success of those communities. The whole strategy towards increasing sustainability, funded in this bridging way that we have talked about by the department as they move forward, the goal is to get them up to the 20 percent level of revenue support generated by themselves. That is the expectation that we have; that is the goal to help them achieve that kind of level, and we are doing it by building social capital, by building the capacity of those communities to better do their own services more effectively, but we have no intention of diminishing the department's role by changing it.
Mr. Chairperson: The time being 12 noon, I am interrupting proceedings.
The Committee of Supply will resume sitting this afternoon following the conclusion of Routine Proceedings.