Mr. Chairperson (Marcel Laurendeau): Would the committee please come to order. This section of the Committee of Supply has been dealing with the Estimates of the Department of Education and Training. Would the minister's staff please enter the Chamber at this time.
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We are on Resolution 16.1.(e) Financial and Administrative Services (1) Salaries and Employee Benefits. When we were last sitting, I do believe the critic for the opposition had asked the minister a question, and we are now going to be going to the minister when the staff is ready.
Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): I see that we are short on time today, it being nearly 20 after three, but I am pleased we are finally started. I have a tabling that I can place in response to the query the member asked before. The question she had asked just as we were concluding the other day can be answered this way, and that is that we were talking about a government contract. Therefore, we do not have it in Department of Education and Training, and therefore cannot table, so that we do not have--it is a government contract.
As far as that Systemhouse goes, they follow the same securities, confidentiality, et cetera, as the others would in our department--as the rest of the department.
Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): The question I had asked, I think, was for some assurance from the minister that the linking with other government departments and government databases was not going to result in the layering of information. I wonder if the minister could respond to that question. Could she explain to us how those safeguards are going to be in place?
Mrs. McIntosh: The answer to that, in short, is that they will not. So they just simply will not.
Ms. Friesen: I would like to be able to take the minister on faith, but I would like an explanation of how that is possible, how it is going to happen. Simply the minister saying it is going to happen is like saying, you know, there are fairies at the bottom of the garden.
Could the minister explain to me what safeguards are in place, what the policy is? Is there a written policy? Is it distributed to all the government? Is it distributed to just the members of this department? We are now entering into a different kind of contract dealing with Systemhouse and with the whole of Government Services, and I think this is a reasonable question to look for some further assurance on.
Mrs. McIntosh: Mr. Chairman, as I was about to say before I was interrupted, that it simply will not, because--and now I can complete my answer--the Information Technology Systems guide and related publications, we have security measures in place that are not going to be changed. The microcomputer and LAN security, the Information Technology Security Handbook, the Manitoba Systems Management Service guide which is negotiated with the out-source vendor, the Manitoba general manual of administration, they all must follow the same security provisions that are in the department and have been there. So, in that sense then, since they have to follow the existing rules and the existing rules have the security standards and confidentiality built in, that will remain constant. That, I hope, is a more complete answer for the member.
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Ms. Friesen: There is one change, however, and that is that Systemhouse now will be providing the help desk, and in order to do that, to provide that help and to provide that assistance on local area networks, it is going to have as an outside agency considerable powers. The minister has given me existing security measures that are in place. Can she tell me how these are applied in the contract? Is there a section in the contract? Has the department inquired into that of how these will be applied to the external contracting agency?
Mrs. McIntosh: Mr. Chairman, yes, we have made that inquiry; and, yes, we have given assurance that there is significant security in the contract. Having said that, once everything is in place, Systemhouse will not have access to the data.
As I have said before, this is a government contract, and while we can provide these details to the member, the details of the contract itself are properly done in the Estimates of Government Services for the fine detail in the contract, but I can give her that assurance from the Department of Education's perspective on security.
Ms. Friesen: Mr. Chairman, I think I am understanding the minister to say that there are two phases to this; that once in place, Systemhouse will not have access to the database of Education and Training. Is the minister implying, I mean, either inadvertently or by policy, that there is an earlier phase where the system is being constructed where Systemhouse will have access to the database? The minister seemed to draw a distinction there, and I just wanted to follow up to check that.
Mrs. McIntosh: Mr. Chairman, three points here: one, the member is talking about the fine detail of a provincial contract which we do not have; but, two, in terms of the confidentiality and security, as I indicated, we did make those inquiries. We were given the assurance of the security measures that were in place. In terms of are there two stages, really there is, I guess you could say, sort of a stage and a half because the information had to be transferred from one system to another, which is not really a stage I do not suppose, but it is not part of the final setup. During that period we know that the procedures put in place for the security of transportation were of the utmost confidential, both in terms of methodologies and personnel, and very strict contract guidelines in how the information was moved from one system to the other.
So I can give the member that assurance, and for the details on the specifics of the contract and the specific security details, she would probably be better to go to the Department of Government Services.
Ms. Friesen: I will follow this up in the Department of Government Services, but I wonder if I could--the department has already been involved with this, and I am looking for the experience of the department. So I have two questions coming from what the minister just said. She said that information was transferred from one system to another, and I wonder if the minister could, with her staff, explain to us which information was transferred and what was it transferred between, what were the two systems? The minister did use the past tense, so I just wanted to confirm whether, in fact, it has already happened or whether we are in the process of it happening.
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The second part is that the minister said that has or will take place under strict contract guidelines. It seems to me if that is happening to departmental data, that the department would be aware of what those contract guidelines are. Not necessarily the whole contract, I can understand that, but certainly areas where the department's data is being affected, is being transferred from one system to another, then the department must be aware of what those guidelines are, must be working with them. So I wonder if the department could table those guidelines.
Mrs. McIntosh: The transfer has not yet happened. It will be happening. It is currently being planned and, we already stated this yesterday, the transfer will not happen until the summer of 1998.
As part of that transfer, the new equipment is installed, staff are trained, new software is installed and made available, each work station is outfitted. Only the data that is stored on our local area networks, like documents, memos, correspondence, curriculum guides, brochures, et cetera, will be transferred.
So materials, data, such as student marks, teacher certification information, student loans, et cetera, are not transferred. We do not know details of contract provisions. We have been assured security will be provided for, and we will learn more between now and the date of transfer. But that may answer her question as to what types of materials are being transferred and which are not.
Just to conclude, we know enough about the provisions of the contract for the work that we are involved in. The next pieces of work are now being planned, and we will engage in information gathering to confirm our confidence in all of the confidentiality provisions as that occurs, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairperson: Shall the item pass? The item is accordingly passed.
Item 16.1. Administration and Finance (e) Financial and Administrative Services (2) Other Expenditures $397,900--pass.
16.1.(f) Management Information Services (1) Salaries and Employee Benefits--$656,200.
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Ms. Friesen: Mr. Chairman, I would like if, under this section, the minister could tell us for the record what services in support of the implementation of Better Methods are going to be expected at the end of this year as a result of this line in the budget.
Mrs. McIntosh: Mr. Chairman, regarding the question the member just asked on Better Methods, two people in the branch manage the transition to Systemhouse, the director and one other staffperson.
Ms. Friesen: Mr. Chairman, the answer surprises me. There must be something more to Better Methods in the department than the management of a transfer to Systemhouse. Could the minister perhaps expand on that, what this department is doing in the Better Methods project of the government?
Mrs. McIntosh: Could the member indicate--I answered a question on a specific line that she said was the line she was referring to. Could she indicate then, because the answer I provided was the answer to that specific line, is she referring now to something else or does she want additional information beyond the straightforward answer to that line?
Ms. Friesen: Well, I was really expressing my surprise that that was all there was to it. The line does say Desktop Management Services in support of the implementation of Better Methods, but I had assumed that there was more to that transition than simply having two people work with staff. It seemed to me that Better Methods was something the government was promoting. We seem to get information on it in our pay packs regularly.
Is there another section of the department which is dealing with Better Methods in a broader way? Should I be asking under another line?
Mrs. McIntosh: Yes, I thank the member for rephrasing her question so we know what she is seeking, and I will provide you with that answer in just a moment.
Mr. Peter Dyck, Acting Chairperson, in the Chair
The department has established a Better Methods implementation team both for kindergarten and Senior 4 and training in continuing education. This has a co-lead. It is led by Jim Glen, the ADM of Administration and Finance, and Bob Gorchynski, the Executive Director of Management Services Training and Continuing Education. It has representatives also from programs such as the School Program Division, the Finance and Admin, HRS, the Schools Finance Branch, et cetera. The mandate is to examine all the relevant issues affected or any implications in human resources, human resources training, roles, responsibilities, possible organizational change, et cetera.
Ms. Friesen: Mr. Chairman, could the minister tell me when the committee was formed and whether she anticipates that this will be a continuing committee or whether there will be a final report?
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Mrs. McIntosh: That has just been formed, the implementation team, well, I guess maybe four weeks ago, about a month ago, and it is an ongoing working team. It is not a team that is designed to do a big public report. It is a working team and it will be implementing and it will be in existence at least, I am sure, until the April '99 deadline, but it is much like the report that the member tabled or somebody tabled in Question Period today. It is a working document, not designed to be a big public report, but something from which people can work, give guidance for their daily operations. The department is following the time lines for the rollout of Better Methods and this is right on schedule for implementation on April 1, '99, and there are people in training as we speak.
Ms. Friesen: One line in this department is: to co-ordinate departmental technology planning and policy development. I wonder if the minister could tell us what portion of the department is on local area networks and wide area networks?
Mrs. McIntosh: There are about 1,000 employees, and about 100 of those are in small locations that are stand alone; about 900 are local area network based with wide area connections.
Ms. Friesen: Does the minister anticipate that that will change under the Systemhouse contract?
Mrs. McIntosh: Of the approximately 100 stand alone small location employees, all of them will receive upgrading and some of them may then--well, some will undoubtedly get the local area network base as well.
Ms. Friesen: What proportion of the department is on e-mail?
Mrs. McIntosh: Over 95 percent of the department.
Ms. Friesen: Can the minister tell me how that will be enhanced by the Systemhouse contract?
Mr. Chairperson in the Chair
Mrs. McIntosh: Mr. Chairman, it may not increase the numbers that are receiving e-mail, although it could, but what it will do which is very important for better communications, better methods, better measures, better way of doing things, it will greatly ease the communication between departments, because right now there are not exactly the same standards between and amongst departments. So this will enable greater ease of communications between the Department of Education, say, and the Department of Health, for example, or another department. So this will facilitate that--greater ease and a more efficient cross-government communication, government-wide--to a set government standard that all will be party to and part of.
Ms. Friesen: I wonder if the minister could explain that a little further. I do not see this from the inside of government; I have seen e-mail from the inside of other institutions. Anybody with an e-mail address and payment and account can e-mail anywhere in the world. Why is there a problem going across government? What is it that will actually be changed and improved? I wonder if the minister could give us some more details.
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Mrs. McIntosh: Yes, I think the member has, I am sure without intent, oversimplified the ease with which anybody, anywhere can e-mail anybody else anywhere. Maybe as she becomes more conversant with computers she will understand that you cannot e-mail just anybody unless you know their e-mail address and how to get their e-mail address.
If I ask the member, for example, to ring up my uncle in Kelowna, she would need his name, or if I just told her to ring up my uncle, she would need his address. It is a little like--perhaps this will help the member understand how these things work--it is like having a telephone. Yes, with the telephone you can call anybody in the world anywhere if you know their phone number, if you have access to a telephone book, a telephone directory, or Information 411. Without those accesses, you will find it very difficult to call anybody in the world even though you have a phone and they have a phone. I think that may help the member understand that e-mail is not unlike a telephone.
We will have a common directory when this is done. We will be able to call people in other departments because we will know how to reach them. Maybe the member did not realize that before, but that is one example. She asked for an example, and that is one. I hope the analogy is helpful to her.
Ms. Friesen: What the minister is saying to me, I think, is that the government, at the moment, does not have a directory of e-mail addresses. Is that what the minister is telling me?
Mrs. McIntosh: Again, it is an oversimplification. There is information available across government; however, it is not consistent. For example, the deputy who sits before me is listed in one place as J. Carlyle, in other places J.D. Carlyle, and in another place by yet another method. So there is no consistent approach. This will give us that. The member asked for an example. I used the telephone book analogy just to indicate that her statement that if you have an e-mail capability on your machine, you can e-mail anybody anywhere, anywhere around the world automatically without anything else. I was just trying to indicate that it is not that simple, that even she would have to acknowledge that simply having a telephone does not automatically give you access to anybody in the world who has a telephone, unless you know their telephone numbers or have some method of accessing the telephone numbers, and you cannot get the telephone numbers unless you have got the name and the name is correctly listed.
You will often, Mr. Chairman, hear people say--I know I do in my case--people will say: I tried and tried to find your name in the phone book, but I could not find it, Mrs. McIntosh; I looked under M-a-c, I looked under M-a-c-k, I looked under M-a-c-k-i. My name is spelled M-c, and a lot of people, unless they have the correct spelling and the correct directory access, will be looking in the wrong place for my name and phone number. That is all I was trying to do to explain to her because she seems to think, in fact, she said if you have an e-mail capability, you can automatically e-mail anybody, any time, anywhere in the world. I wanted to point out to her that that is an oversimplification. It is not wise to constantly oversimplify the way she does, because it leads people to wide general conclusions that are not totally accurate.
So I use that by way of an example and I come back to the fact that in government, we will, with this new method coming into place, have greater ease of communications. We have a lot of people on e-mail. This will facilitate them being able to more readily and easily contact each other, because there will be a directory that is consistent throughout in how people are named and where their addresses are placed. She had asked me for an example. I have given that as an example. I hope she understands that I am not trying to make the broad sweeping generalizations that she is then interpreting from my trying to correct her oversimplification.
I think if we are trying to get at the central point, and the member may be missing that whole point, is that Better Methods will enable all of government to do its job better because we will have common software, common equipment, the same standards and consistency across government, not just across individual departments. That will be, I am sure the member will agree, better for the government as a whole.
Ms. Friesen: Mr. Chair, I think the minister should understand that my concerns are for a $2.5-million annual contract and the benefits that the government anticipates it will be bringing to this department. I wonder if the minister could table the existing directory for her department of e-mail addresses.
Mrs. McIntosh: We can provide that for the member; obviously, we do not have it here, but we can obtain it for her and bring it to the next session.
Ms. Friesen: I believe that this section of the department also has been involved in the Integrated Case Management study with the Department of Family Services. I wonder if the minister could give us an update on that project. I see the staff is looking puzzled. I am looking at the annual report for last year--not last year, but the previous year, '96-97--and I wonder if the department could give us a sense of where that is.
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Mrs. McIntosh: There are two staff, a programmer and an analyst allocated full time. The lead on the project is Service First; the lead in the department is Deputy Tom Carson. This area is probably best discussed under 16.5.(a) Management Services because, as I say, Tom is the lead on this, but the short response to the question has just been given.
As well, Mr. Chairman, in terms of the service, we have, for example, under core, delivery to land titles, personal property and so on; under Human Services, Integrated Case Management, One Tier Welfare. These are Service First Initiatives, and a number of these involve, as you can imagine, not just the deputy for Training and Continuing Education, but also with Family Services because the One Tier Welfare Initiative is more than simply one department, it crosses over departments. The Integrated Case Management is in the analysis stage. It is laying out details, requirements and so on. So I will maybe pause there. If the member has further details she would like, I can respond with her next question.
Ms. Friesen: Mr. Chairman, I will pursue it under 16.5.(a) if that is where the minister wants to discuss it.
Finally, I want to ask about the Student Financial Assistance information system, which a year ago was reported upon as having been upgraded in the annual report. I notice this year it is to be upgraded again. Could the minister explain what the additional upgrades are for and, again, what the connection to the Systemhouse contract is going to be and how the upgrading is going to be enhanced by the Systemhouse contract?
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Mrs. McIntosh: The student aid information system, of course, it changes every year as student aid is a joint federal-provincial program and examples, new rates, new rules, new qualifications, it is not directly affected by Systemhouse or the Systemhouse contract.
Ms. Friesen: One activity identification in Management Information Services is the provision of annual upgrades and improvements to departmental information technology infrastructure. Can the minister explain what that particular activity identification will become when the Systemhouse contract is in place? It seems to me that upgrades, improvements and infrastructure will be the purview of Systemhouse, so what will be the role of this section of the department?
Mrs. McIntosh: Systemhouse does not do it all. We provide mini computers. We provide databases, computer room equipment, for example, ELS database, student aid database, the library, distance delivery, best seller library, media booking, actual enrollment, professional schools personnel, student records, student aid, employment training, apprenticeship information systems, administration, student enrollment level 2, level 3, student home schooling, exam processing, high school marks, teacher BEF enrollment. Each of these we supply the support, the hardware, and the software.
Mr. Chairperson: Shall the item pass? Pass.
16.1.(f)(2) Other Expenditures $241,300--pass.
We will now move on to Resolution 16.2.2. School Programs (a) Division Administration (1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $266,500.
Ms. Friesen: Do we need new staff or--
Mr. Chairperson: You can probably get going. If she needs the other staff, they will be right here anyway.
The honourable minister to introduce her staff present.
Mrs. McIntosh: We have joining us at the table, in addition to Carolyn Loeppky and John Carlyle, we have Norma Jean Taylor, who is the principal of the Manitoba School for the Deaf, and Kevin Klein, who is the interpreter.
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Ms. Friesen: At the moment I am looking at 16.2.(a) the Division Administration, and I wonder if the minister could tell us what project teams she has in place.
Mrs. McIntosh: The member asked about leadership teams. The leadership team meets regularly to review all operations and programs in School Programs Division, and that is about once every two months. The management team meets every two weeks, and they identify School Programs Division work projects and they assign staff time and they are not one and the same, obviously, because they fulfill different roles. One needs to meet more regularly than the other.
Other project teams across the School Programs Division include work on such items as the IEP team, developing the guidelines to support divisions in developing individual education plans, the school plans team which support the implementation of school plans. We have others as well, but those are examples of some of the project teams and some of the work that they are doing, the curriculum project teams that develop all the new curricula is another set of teams that we rely upon and work closely with. We also have the school-linked project team that is interdepartmental, again helping us to ensure that departments across government are working in sync with each other co-ordinating their efforts and in concert with the Children and Youth Secretariat, ensuring that duplication and overlap are avoided and that new initiatives are brought in and well understood with those who liaise with the schools. So the school-linked project team is interdepartmental and the others that I have referenced are internal to the department.
Ms. Friesen: I wonder if that is the full list of project teams. I am looking at the Expected Results, and that is the divisional management team will establish project teams to address priority issues. I am wondering if that is the complete list or whether the minister would like to table something later. I understand that the curriculum project teams obviously includes a grouping of teams. Just leave it at that and see if I have the whole list here.
Mrs. McIntosh: We can certainly give her names of teams but, as she will appreciate, some are old, some are new, and some of the old, while they did relevant work, have disbanded because the work is complete. For example, the guide for differentiated learning which is so popular in our schools, a wonderful document, and will be ongoing for some time because it is in constant request, but the team that developed that has completed its task and has been disbanded, notwithstanding the good work they have done will go on for many, many years. Then there is also a new team to write a document. A new team might be developed to write a document to assist schools' best practice developing programs for special needs children, for example, and those ones would just be beginning their work and so obviously would not be complete.
Ms. Friesen: I am not sure I heard the minister saying whether or not she would be tabling a list of the teams. I think the minister is nodding; I assume that is the case.
Mrs. McIntosh: Just for the record so that it is clear, the answer is yes.
Ms. Friesen: Another function of this section of the department is to provide for the continuing communication with stakeholders and the general public, and I wonder if the minister could tell me what she anticipates in the form of communication with the general public in the next year.
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Mrs. McIntosh: Mr. Chairman, we have a series of ongoing consultations that take place with the public. A prime example is the work that is being done with the advisory councils for school leadership. We have some 300 advisory councils now approximately, and we have staff people here who regularly consult with them on whatever it is they wish to consult on. We also have skill-building sessions and seminars for parents. We communicate through channels such as we have had in the past with the Parents' Forum format, those kinds of initiatives.
The member is speaking specifically with communication with the public and not internal communication with educators or people who work for and around students, but we hear--in terms of my office, we get many phone calls and receive many letters and have countless meetings. I should one day count up the number of meetings I have had with groups, but going back over three years, it would be a pretty large thing to count, but in any given day, Mr. Chairman, I start meeting at nine in the morning and usually go till six at night with hour-long meetings that are back to back, or I am out in the field with an hour-and-a-half to two-hour tours of schools. When the House is in session, of course, my schedule backs up because I have to be here in the Chamber. We set the meetings and like this week, for example, I have met with a couple of groups already. I met yesterday with the friendship centres on an issue that they wished to talk to me about. Those kinds of consultations take place regularly in my office, between me and the senior staff, and they are with members of the public.
I meet with school boards as well, which is quasi public because they are elected and they are governing bodies, but they are also elected to represent the public. As well I attend conferences, as minister, with teaching assistants, with the interpreter service that Kevin is with, for example. I meet with a wide variety of special interest groups and advocacy groups inside my office or at their special place, wherever it happens to be. I meet with groups of people as guest speaker at school divisional meetings.
For example, I have spoken twice to the Faculty of Education student bodies at the University of Winnipeg and the University of Manitoba, and that is normally followed by a question-and-answer period, or an informal visit in a boardroom with the senior people involved in the organization who provide ideas, ask questions. It is a consultative type process even though we do not call it that, we just call it an appointment, that so and so has an appointment with you this afternoon, Madam Minister, and 14 people will come in. We end up consulting with each other on things that we think could be done to best serve students in Manitoba. It is not a consultation in terms of advertising that now I am going to consult, but it serves the same purpose, and it is very helpful to all of us in the ministry.
The school program division also receives queries by phone and e-mail that are usually answered directly by staff. We have a whole variety of issues that are raised to the staff's attention, that way I think the telephone is an incredible vehicle for consulting and dispensing and flowing information back and forth. I know we have three or four people on the phones in my office constantly, all day long, just taking calls and dispensing information, receiving advice and input and feedback on various government initiatives. They are all eventually streamed into me, although I could not possibly talk to everyone who phones, because the calls, they number in the hundreds not the tens, but those ideas are all given to me by the staff people who talk to them, bring in the information to me for my information.
Carolyn Loeppky, the ADM that is at the table here with us today sits on the minister's Advisory Committee on Education Finance and on the minister's committee on implementing educational change. She participates in presentations at the request of organizations. My staff are frequently called to the field to do that type of interaction. All of these have representation from the general public.
In addition to that, parents sometimes call to the ADM's office if they have concerns with local schools or local school divisions, and then there is a follow-up that is required to solve problems. That often leads to consultations or mediations, or any number of communications, devices or processes that are used to solve problems in the field, and that again is a consultative process.
So I do not know if that answers the member's question, because there are so many other ways in which we communicate. We value our communication, and the help that we receive from them, that help, in turn, helps us to better solve problems in the field. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Ms. Friesen: Mr. Chairman, what I was asking was the minister's plans for communication with the general public this coming year. What the minister answered was, she gave me an ongoing description of the work of this section of the department and, then, I think added some material that dealt with activities and communication with the general public that came out of the minister's office.
So I wonder if I could go back to the issue of the plans for the meetings with the general public or communication with the general public in the coming year. Are they any different than the continuing, ongoing activities that the minister has laid out?
Mrs. McIntosh: Mr. Chairman, the member asks if we are planning to change the way in which we do our communications, and the short answer is no, because we believe they are very effective. Will we be doing more than just what I have outlined? The answer to that is yes.
We have opened a website, for example, which is great. We expect to see that really enhance the ability to communicate and consult with the public. We will continue with our parent or other forms of public forums. We will continue with the workshops that we provide to the public and to the field. We will continue with the meetings. We also have teleconferencing that we engage in where we will set it up ahead of time, the interactive television we have used for conferencing, the video conferencing where I have sent videos off to conferences where I could not appear as a guest speaker, I would tape the speech and send it off, and they play that at the time of the address and they send me back feedback--that type of thing.
The most effective consultations by far are those on the ongoing everyday continuing staff visits, broad-based communication with schools where staff will be asked to come out to schools. They will go out and come back with a wealth of information. I attend the MAST conference, for example. Consult with trustees in a special meeting that they call annually there for the minister to meet with board chairpeople for most of the morning where we consult with each other on issues. Similarly, I will meet with MASBO, which is the Manitoba Association of School Business Officials. I have twice attended their conference and have at this point--the last I tallied it was 150 schools that I have visited, and I know that staff constantly visits with schools as well. The deputy was out last night meeting with a school board. I was out on Friday meeting with a couple of advisory councils; similarly, the ADM is constantly in touch with people from the field.
All of that information comes back into the office as very important consultation with the public. Every communique that we have is a consultative process that adds to our knowledge and enables us to build and grow and meet the needs of the people that are out there. So, basically, we believe that those communications are working extremely well, very effectively. You will see the addition more greatly used in terms of the technologies--teleconferencing, interactive television and website, to be specific.
Ms. Friesen: Mr. Chair, I did not actually ask if the minister was changing her plans. I asked what the plans were. I wonder if the minister could tell us more specifically what her plans are for Parents' Forum this coming year.
Mrs. McIntosh: Mr. Chair, we have just finished one not that long ago. We have not established one for the next academic year, but we do have constant ongoing communications with the parent advisory council association of Manitoba. Indeed, we provide them with their office space and a grant, and we meet with them regularly to receive input from them on parent activities and parent feedback. As well, they sit on the implementation committee.
We do not normally plan the major forum until the fall. We do the planning for it. We could start planning now, but this year one of the reasons we have not started planning for our own provincial forum is that we are attending a national forum on education to be held in St. John's, Newfoundland in May. To that national forum on education, which is the third one we have held--it is held every second year--we are taking a delegation of 10 Manitoba citizens. These are people whom we very much wish to consult. In addition to those 10 citizens, we are also taking the chair of the Council on Post-Secondary Education from Manitoba. I think it is a two- or three-day conference. So instead of having a provincial forum this June, we are having a national forum.
It should be very interesting, because all ministers are taking--each minister from all provinces and the territories--a delegation of 10. We have chosen this year to take consumers of education. In previous fora, we have taken the deliverers of education as our delegation. At the last forum the feedback that the ministers received was that, while everybody appreciated having the deliverers of education there, they felt there needed to be more of a consumer perspective. So we are taking all consumers, with the exception of Mr. Jerry MacNeil from the Manitoba Association of School Trustees, who is chosen as representative of school trustees who are not direct consumers themselves but are elected to represent consumers and rate payers.
So we have parents and students who we are taking. The students we are taking are the president of the University of Manitoba Students' Union, the president of Red River Community College. We are taking the parent of a special needs student. We are taking the parent of an independent school student. We are taking a representative from the parent council Advisory Council for School Leadership. As I said, we are taking a representative of trustees who we believe represent all consumers and rate payers.
Mr. Chairman, I am sure I have left somebody out here. I mentioned we are taking Mr. Dawson from the Council on Post-Secondary Education, as well as our 10 delegates, and the two deputies are going as well. This should be a most interesting forum because it is building on the first two that we had. We expect to have a lot of feedback from that that will benefit not just Manitoba in terms of a major consultation, but we will also have the benefit of hearing what consumers of education across the nation have to say, so that we can make comparisons and do evaluations on a Pan-Canadian perspective.
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Mr. Chairperson: Order, please. The hour now being five o'clock, time for private members' hour. Committee rise. Call in the Speaker.