Mr. Chairperson (Marcel Laurendeau): Would the Committee of Supply please come to order. This section of the Committee of Supply has been dealing with the Estimates of the Department of Rural Development. Would the minister's staff please enter the Chamber at this time.
We are on Resolution 13.6. Rural Economic Programs (b) Rural Economic Development Initiatives (3) Programs - Operating.
Mr. Clif Evans (Interlake): I just want to ask the minister: Can he explain what the strategic initiatives are? Then it says provides the grants under Strategic Initiatives. Can he just explain that a little bit.
Hon. Leonard Derkach (Minister of Rural Development): From time to time there are projects that come forward that do not exactly fit the mould that has been cast within the other programs, and so therefore, under the Strategic Initiatives program, it gives us some flexibility to allow for support to initiatives that still qualify under the general parameters of the REDI program but are unique in nature, and perhaps there is not one just like anywhere else in the province that one can model after. So, basically, that is what the component is for. It is to be able to have communities come forward with projects that are unique but are strategically important to that area of the province, and so it allows our department to be able to support them.
Mr. Clif Evans: I thank the minister for that and I just want a final comment on that line and let the minister know that certainly one part of the program under the REDI program--or two parts--The Green Team program and the Junior Achievement, that we certainly support on our side.
Mr. Chairperson: Item 13.6.(b)(3) Programs - Operating $7,742,300--pass; (4) Programs - Capital $5,727,700.
Mr. Clif Evans: In reading through this, through the page, is there the natural gas issue itself under Capital Programs as a department and whatever resources the rural department is providing into the natural gas issue and the co-operative that has been formed besides the feasibility study that was done and a 50-50 grant was provided through the REDI program? Is any of this resource targeted at all for any future natural gas development in the Interlake area?
Mr. Derkach: The two projects that we have been pursuing over the last year, and in one case much more than that, is the gasification of the Swan River area and the other one is the Ste. Agathe-La Broquerie area. We are also working with the Interlake Natural Gas Co-op, I guess it is, but that particular project is still in, I guess, its development stages and will require some work before it becomes a reality, so I cannot say at this time whether or not there will be any funds expended for this project this year.
We are meeting with the Interlake group in the next couple of weeks and we will be able to ascertain how quickly they are proceeding from their end with regard to the development of the project.
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Mr. Clif Evans: It is my understanding, brought to my attention that there is an open forum meeting re the natural gas issue in Teulon on Thursday, I believe, Thursday evening, and I notice that staff will be present at that.
I must say that I want to encourage this development even though there are some problems right now that they are facing in different municipalities. I think they are doing an admirable job in making sure that everybody that has questions are being provided with the necessary answers. This being such a large program that we are initiating here or undertaking, I should say, certainly needs to be well addressed, and hopefully the government will be able to provide as much support and information and hopefully some resources for this project down the line. It will be a tremendous boost for those in the constituencies or in the jurisdictions, municipalities, that the proposals are there for and certainly hopefully that we can finally achieve what we have been trying to achieve now, I would say, for eight or nine to 10 years, and that is gasifying that area. Hopefully everybody will be satisfied when the initiative does go ahead or is finalized and that they have the support of this minister and this government.
Mr. Derkach: Mr. Chairman, we are supportive of the expansion of natural gas to rural communities, and we work as co-operatively as is possible with Centra Gas and with our local communities. It would be far easier for us to extend these services if we had the complete co-operation of the federal government for the extension of these services, because that is a fairly important investment in our province, and we do as often as we can try to capitalize on those infrastructure dollars so that we do have the partnership of the federal government, Centra Gas, and the community before we proceed.
Mr. Chairperson: Shall the item pass? The item is accordingly passed.
13.6.(c) Unconditional Grants - Rural Community Development $6 million.
Mr. Clif Evans: Just one question on this. Is the formula still the same as in previous years, per capita, or $5,000 per community and then per capita, and what is the rate or the amount given now per capita?
Mr. Derkach: Mr. Chairman, I do not have the dollar amount for the formula, but I can tell the member that the formula has not changed. We still allow for the $5,000 per community, and then there is a per capita grant for them. The formula is the same, but it is in and about the same figure as it was last year. Okay, for 1997, the per capita rate was $12.33.
Mr. Clif Evans: So, if I remember correctly, I believe that rate now has increased around $3 over the past four or five years that we have had this program in place. Will the minister indicate whether they are planning on providing for the '98 year increasing that by any percentage at all?
Mr. Derkach: Mr. Chairman, since 1993 the program has more than doubled. In 1993 we paid out $5.70 on a per capita basis. By 1997 it was $12.33. In 1998, we anticipate that the program will add another dollar per capita to the payout.
Mr. Chairperson: Shall the item pass? The item is accordingly passed.
Resolution 13.6: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $21,000,000 for Rural Development, Rural Economic Programs, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 1999.
We will now move on to Resolution 13.7. Item 13.7. Expenditures Related to Capital (a) Transit Bus Purchases $180,000.
Mr. Clif Evans: Just one question on this. The program is geared for Brandon. If I am correct on this, it is specifically for the city of Brandon. Are there any other communities that the department is looking at or that have applied for this type of support under this program?
Mr. Derkach: Mr. Chairman, the transit program actually supports three communities, Brandon, Thompson and Flin Flon. The capital side of the support goes to Brandon only, and then there is $80,000 of the $180,000 which goes to the mobility transit program. So it is $100,000 of capital to Brandon and $80,000 to the mobility transit program.
Mr. Chairperson: Shall the item pass? The item is accordingly passed.
Item 13.7.(b) Water Development $944,100--pass; (c) Sewer and Water $3,910,000.
Mr. Clif Evans: Mr. Chairman, under this part of the program, can the minister indicate how many communities will be eligible for support under this grant?
Mr. Derkach: Mr. Chairman, we can add the numbers of communities up who have applied for the program, and I can tell you that it is a fairly extensive list, but I would say that every community in Manitoba is eligible for the program, and they apply based on their needs. They also submit a five-year capital plan, which gives us some idea of what is required over the course of the next five years. These projects are prioritized based on what the most critical ones are that have to be addressed, and then we fund them in that way. I can have a number for the member, but it will take us a little while to do that.
Mr. Clif Evans: Mr. Chairman, I certainly appreciate that. If the minister could just provide me on paper a bit of detail on some of the projects that are going to be undertaken under this, I would appreciate that.
Mr. Chairperson: Shall the item pass? The item is accordingly passed.
Item 13.7.(d) Canada-Manitoba Partnership Agreement on Municipal Water Infrastructure $800,000.
Mr. Clif Evans: Mr. Chair, if the minister could just--and I have no problem with this program whatsoever, just a little bit more on the explanation, if he could just go a little further to explain the PAMWI grants from $4 million down to $1 million? I know it says projected cash flow required to complete this program in '98-99, but why such a major reduction?
Mr. Derkach: The PAMWI program will be finished at the end of this year. We have two projects that are being completed this year, and that is Brandon and Portage. This is why there is only $1 million allocated this year, because that is all that is required to complete the program.
Mr. Clif Evans: Will the program have to be revitalized as far as application for funding and as far as for any future agreements for infrastructure under the PAMWI agreement? Will we be looking at the agreement and the program continuing?
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Mr. Derkach: In discussion with the federal government now to see whether or not they are prepared to enter into another infrastructure works program like PAMWI, or similar to PAMWI, we have not received any definitive answers from the federal government people at this time, but we will certainly continue to pursue that.
Mr. Chairperson: Item 13.7. Expenditures Related to Capital (d) Canada-Manitoba Partnership Agreement on Municipal Water Infrastructure $800,000--pass.
Item 13.7.(e) Conservation Districts $2,450,000--pass.
Item 13.7.(f) Downtown Revitalization, zero.
Mr. Clif Evans: I guess more of a comment than a question. I mean, I know the minister had indicated last year was the last of the program. I wonder out loud, why? I made comments on this program in previous Estimates that I believe it is a very good program to have and initiative to have, and I wonder if this minister and his department would not be looking at revitalizing the Downtown Revitalization program with some funding for the future?
There are a lot of communities right now that through their economic development and through the initiatives that they are putting through, I know a program such as this that worked very, very well during the mid-'80s when it was there; as a matter of fact, I saw first-hand of it in Killarney, Manitoba, the Downtown Revitalization program. It was a tremendous boost for that community and others that were involved in that program, and I wonder whether the minister and his department and government will be looking at a similar program to continue or some other type of a program that will help our small community towns and villages.
Mr. Derkach: As the member knows, we are prioritizing all of the kinds of initiatives that come forward, and one that is of priority is natural gas to communities. Another one, of course, is the whole infrastructure redevelopment program that is taking place across the province. So, given the scarce number of dollars, we are trying to allocate them as prudently as we possibly can.
The Downtown Revitalization program has been an important one. We were participants in the Thompson Downtown Revitalization program and in the Brandon one. These two programs have concluded now, but certainly their impact was very positive in those two communities. Down the road, certainly, we would be looking at reinstating something like the Downtown Revitalization program as communities come forward with their requests and their needs, but at the present time we are trying to focus our attention on those critical needs which are basically infrastructure development and natural gas extension to communities.
Mr. Chairperson: Shall the item pass? The item is accordingly passed.
Item 13.7. Expenditures Related to Capital (g) Infrastructure Development $8,337,700. Shall the item pass?
Mr. Clif Evans: Mr. Chair, no real questions on this. I can see part of the proposed plans for this infrastructure development and its funding and what its expected results are on this, and I look forward to being kept within some sort of knowledge as to how these different programs that the department has indicated here will be continuing and how well they will be going and whether there will be any concerns that we may raise at a later date on this.
Mr. Derkach: Mr. Chairman, this program basically addresses the needs of large infrastructure development projects which are happening in the province. As the member knows, today we turned sod for the Maple Leaf facility in Brandon. There is going to be some infrastructure work that is going to be required at the site, and this is the area that we address those types of works. Canadian Agra, as the member knows, was part of this, McCain, and now we are into it with Maple Leaf. So it is an important component of our program and one in which we address some of the larger projects that come our way as a result of, I guess, companies looking at Manitoba as an attractive place to invest.
Mr. Chairperson: Shall the item pass? The item is accordingly passed.
Item 13.7. Expenditures Related to Capital (h) Less: Recoverable from Rural Economic Development Initiatives ($4,377,700)--pass.
Item 13.7.(j) Less: Recoverable from Capital Initiatives ($4,000,000). Shall the item pass?
Mr. Clif Evans: Mr. Chairman, this $4 million is tied in with your infrastructure development plan or is it something a little different?
Mr. Derkach: Mr. Chairman, under the Minister of Finance, a special capital initiatives program, I guess, was established from which we draw for projects like the Dauphin water treatment. So when we enter into projects of that nature, we are then able to recover our expenditures from that source.
Mr. Chairperson: Shall the item pass? The item is accordingly passed.
Resolution 13.7: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $8,244,100 for Rural Development, Expenditures Related to Capital, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 1999.
We will now return to Resolution 13.1. and the Minister's Salary. At this time we thank the staff of the department for their assistance, and we ask you if you could please leave the Chamber.
Mr. Clif Evans: Mr. Chairman, I, too, would just like to express my thanks to the minister's department people for the four days that we have been dealing with the Estimates and look forward to working with them in the future. Thank you very kindly.
Mr. Chairperson: When you have staff like that, you cannot go wrong.
Shall the item pass?
Mr. Clif Evans: Mr. Chairman, prior to our further discussion or decision on the Minister's Salary, I just want to put on record that we on this side, and I know that my rural members, some that are present--and the minister can say what he might--support a lot of the Rural Development initiatives that are happening and that are part of the Rural Development department. There is a lot of economic hope in rural Manitoba, and we will work with the minister within this department to enhance and better provide the opportunity for rural economic benefits and for all the projects, whether it be water, whether it be water and sewer, whether it be industrial projects as such, and we hope that we receive co-operation and work with the minister with some of these programs. Also, I just want to, again, say to the minister that I have had many opportunities to work with his department people and certainly have had absolutely no problems. They have been excellent to me, as they have been to other caucus members on this side.
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Mr. Derkach: Mr. Chairman, I thank the member for those comments. Certainly my department's goal is to try and ensure that every opportunity possible is given to rural communities to enhance their state in life and to be able to sustain themselves and to continue to grow. As minister, it is my responsibility to encourage and to lead that effort. I thank the member for his co-operation over the last year because he has been co-operative in many areas, and we certainly do appreciate that. Thank you.
Mr. Chairperson: 13.1. Administration and Finance (a) Minister's Salary $26,300--pass.
Resolution 13.1: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $1,394,000 for Rural Development, Administration and Finance, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 1999.
This concludes the Department of Natural Resources. We thank the minister and the critic for their time.
An Honourable Member: Rural Development, Sir.
Mr. Chairperson: Rural Development. Is that not what I said?
An Honourable Member: You said Natural Resources.
Mr. Chairperson: I am sorry, Rural Development. I apologize to the minister for that.
We will now move on to the Department of Education.