Mr. Chairperson (Marcel Laurendeau): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This section of the Committee of Supply will be considering the Estimates of the Department of Rural Development.
Does the honourable Minister of Rural Development have an opening statement?
Hon. Leonard Derkach (Minister of Rural Development): Yes, I do, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman and members of the opposition parties, it is a privilege for me on behalf of Manitoba Rural Development to present the Estimates for the 1998-99 fiscal year.
I would like to begin today with my thanks to the staff from my department. I have to make a special point of this. I believe it is important for the people of Manitoba to know. It is also important for the members present to understand the kind of special effort that the staff have put forward on behalf of rural Manitobans everywhere. I have worked with a lot of good people over my time in government in the field of education and in my farm business life and also in my business life, and so I have worked with many, many people. I mention this today because I truly believe that the dedication and commitment of the staff in my department is second to none. I have had the pleasure of working with some of the best people in the civil service, or for that matter, the workforce in general. I believe that together with the outstanding efforts of rural Manitobans throughout the province, they have had a direct hand in the strengthening and the growth of our rural communities.
I have been fortunate for the past six years to watch them accomplish a great deal. They have never backed away from a challenge. In fact, on many occasions they have uncovered not only the solutions but new opportunities for building our province even stronger. You will meet many of them over the course of the Estimates, and it has been my pleasure to witness their efforts and achievements.
In Manitoba, the Winnipeg Free Press will tell you it ain't so until it is so. In other words, if it is not in the Free Press, then it is simply not happening. I refer you to an article in the Sunday, March 15, edition of the Free Press in which the paper finally conceded in its headline that there was an economic boom taking place in rural Manitoba. Now, the paper went on to say that nobody quite knew when the boom started, but that in fact there was one currently taking place.
I accept the fact that the Free Press is just waking up to the success that is taking place in rural Manitoba, but for the rest of us this resurgence and revitalization of our rural economy began to take hold six years ago or even a little less time than that, perhaps four or five years ago, but let me share with you what the Free Press has discovered.
The researcher at the University of Manitoba acknowledged that the rural economy is going crazy. Along with a tremendous amount of new economic development taking place, the article reported that 72 of Manitoba's registered towns have seen an increase in population reversing the trend established in the mid or late '80s in rurality population. There is a spirit that runs through the province. It is steeped with pride, and it is blended with hard work and determination, and, Mr. Chairman, it is alive and well in rural Manitoba and in the Department of Rural Development.
I will always thank Premier Gary Filmon for the opportunity to serve this department, but I do remember the challenge we all faced back in the early 1990s. Mired in a deep recession and barely able to meet the most basic of obligations because of the excessive taxes, high interest and lack of direction during most of the 1980s, rural Manitoba, and for that matter all of Manitoba, was suffering. Our pride, our resourcefulness and our will has been challenged to the fullest. Today it is clearly a very different story. The hard work, the hours and hours of extra effort, the absolute refusal to give into the old excuses that there is not enough hours in a day or it cannot be done on time were replaced with a new attitude and a whole new approach. Every challenge became an opportunity. Negativity gave way to finding a solution. Individually, the pride of helping people help themselves became a motive and the end result.
The accomplishments and achievements of the past six years are many, and I would like to give you just a few highlights. New assessment legislation, the computerization of assessments, the introduction of market value assessments, province-wide reassessment and the introduction of public access to assessment information, the review and improvement of a Mobility Disadvantaged Program. Mr. Chairman, this is a very important program in rural Manitoba because more and more today we are seeing people who have disabilities live in rural communities, and with the increased emphasis on providing the mobility disadvantaged people with transportation, we are seeing that they are taking their rightful place in our society in our small communities.
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The revision and the improvement to the transient traders legislation is certainly an important piece of legislation that was pushed for by many of our communities and today it is in place.
We have a new policing agreement. This was an issue, Mr. Chairman, that was before us for, oh, I would say 20 years. Municipalities were complaining about the fact that the policing agreement was not met. Finally, about four and a half years ago, we were able to accomplish that. The three-year review and the public consultation processes to produce a new Municipal Act was certainly an important achievement. I would have to say that it was a positive document because of the efforts of rural Manitobans who came together and decided on the type of legislation that was important for them with regard to the municipalities in this province.
What is important to note with regard to the accomplishment I have just mentioned is that in almost every case both the Union of Manitoba Municipalities and the Manitoba Association of Urban Municipalities said that they had been requesting changes that dated back to the early '80s, and that nothing had been done.
Mr. Chairman, let me just touch on a few more of the accomplishments that have happened.
The natural gas expansion program that began in 1994. Today we have many communities across rural Manitoba who are fortunate enough and who have been blessed with the expansion of natural gas to their communities and are enjoying the benefits of the infrastructure and also of the service because it allows them to have their community grow.
A total of 21 Grow Bonds have leveraged over $23 million in capital investment in rural Manitoba, money that would have gone outside of rural Manitoba, and has maintained and will create more than 400 new jobs in this province.
The Rural Economic Development Initiative, or commonly known as REDI, has leveraged over $80 million in capital investment and has created over 2,000 full-time jobs. It is in part, through REDI programs like the Community Works Loan Program, that the Rural Entrepreneur Assistance program and others that the rural economy has begun its resurgence.
During the last fiscal year, we also introduced an entry-level marketing seminar to help small businesses improve their marketing techniques. The seminar was delivered at five locations around the province during Small Business Week and was attended by more than 210 participants.
REDI's focus on youth is also why more and more of our young people are choosing to build their careers in their hometowns and their local communities. The Green Team and Partners with Youth programs have created more than 3,000 part-time positions for rural youth. The Rural Junior Achievement Program has been delivered to over 15,000 rural students in over 100 communities since 1993, and volunteers have created more than 10,000 hours of personal time to deliver over 560 programs.
Mr. Chairman, as I said earlier, you can see in all of the accomplishments what we are really doing is helping rural Manitobans to help themselves. It is rural Manitobans who are really getting the job done.
If I can just for a moment talk about the youth in this province, I was encouraged this morning to hear on the radio that in fact Manitoba now can boast of the lowest unemployment rate in all of Canada. What that means is that this province is leading the rest of Canada in creating jobs, in creating opportunities for people.
I would have to tell you that two evenings ago I met with the Rural Advisory Committee to my department, which is made up of people from across rural Manitoba, and they told me that one of the initiatives that we have to look at clearly is how we can begin the process of attracting back those Manitobans who left us in the 1980s, because indeed this province is becoming an attractive place for people to invest and to grow.
Mr. Chairman, as I said earlier, you can see that these accomplishments are not the result just of government working on its own, but indeed it is the result of partnerships that have been built. The proof is that the Community Choices program, which employs the community round table concept is getting local communities together to sustain and grow their local areas. This program has worked beyond our wildest dreams. Today, there are 87 round tables that encompass more 140 municipalities. These people, who come from all walks of life, have come together to plan the vision for their towns and their villages, and their success is all around us. It is evident in the success stories you can see as commonplace in our province, and it is the kind of community dedication and spirit that will ensure rural Manitobans a strong and prosperous future.
The showcase for much of what has been accomplished over the past years has also been put together by staff of the department. The annual Rural Forum in Brandon, which this year is set for April 30, May 1 and 2 in Brandon's Keystone Centre, is entering its sixth year and has drawn over 23,000 people to see the best of what rural Manitoba has to offer. The forum has come to symbolize the success of rural Manitobans. This year will mark the sixth annual event, and we expect it will be the best yet. Nowhere else can Manitobans experience under one roof the best in business exhibits, food, and entertainment that rural Manitoba has to offer. The Rural Forum is just another example of what we have been saying all along that rural Manitobans have a lot of which to be proud of. I invite all of the members of this House to attend what truly has become the province-wide celebration of rural success.
Other accomplishments include such things as the water and sewer programming that has assisted more than 90 rural water projects over 100 municipalities and water co-operatives; the expansion of the Conservation Districts program; and, the Infrastructure Development assistance that aided in the McCain expansion in Portage la Prairie and others throughout the province.
A recent involvement with the Canadian-Ukraine Business Initiative, the MOU with Nunavut, the soon to be newest territory in Canada, the Maple Leaf Hog expansion in Brandon, and the successful creation of Winnport are more recent examples of the efforts of the department's initiative and staff.
I am not exaggerating when I say we have skimmed the surface of our achievements. Before I go any further, I might recognize many of our partners who have helped us over these past six years: UMM, MAUM, the Manitoba Municipal Administrators Association, the Manitoba Chamber of Commerce, Junior Achievement of Manitoba, the Economic Innovation and Technology Council, the University of Brandon, the Assiniboine Community College, the Manitoba Women's Institute, Manitoba Food Processors Association, and the Manitoba Community Newspapers Association. These partnerships have been invaluable in helping to revive the rural economy.
The year ahead promises to be a very good year for rural Manitoba. As a province, our fourth consecutive balanced budget means Manitoba's finances are healthier than they have been in the last 25 years. Our government continues to spend taxpayers' money wisely. Our focus remains on health, education, and the needs of families. We are providing better ways for Manitobans to prepare themselves for economic opportunities, and, Mr. Chairman, more Manitobans are working than ever before. In fact, as I just said, our unemployment rate is at its lowest since 1981. For 10 years our government has been rebuilding our economy. Our job now is to ensure that all Manitobans share in the benefits of balanced budgets and an even stronger economy.
Mr. Chairman, I now want to address how our new budget impacts on our department for 1998-99. I am particularly pleased to announce that for 1998-99, funding appropriations for the department have increased by 2.5 percent from $48,987,200 to $50,231,800. Of the total, Local Government Services division will increase from $10,476,300 to $10,871,300. Increases have been provided for programming areas within the division, most notably, our municipal support services such as Transit Grants and Municipal Support Grants. Grants in Lieu of Taxes will receive a substantive increase. Assessment Services will also be increased. Funding increases will also be provided for the Economic Development Services division. The increase will allow staff to extend service delivery into more northern communities.
We are also pleased to announce an increase in the funding for Rural Economic programs. The funding increase will net us a number of positive results. It will help provide employment for more youth and help them to pursue entrepreneurial activities. It will expand and diversify business opportunities. As you know, this has a snowball effect as we have seen in our province. Once the economy gets rolling, whatever inducements or incentives we can provide only helps it to keep moving forward.
Specifically, some of the increases will be for Unconditional Grants to support community development to $6 million from $5.5 million last fiscal year. Conservation Districts funding to reflect the growth in a number of districts to nine districts will increase by $150,000, and funding for infrastructure projects will amount to about $8.34 million. This funding increase will be used for several priority projects such as the expansion of regional water supplies to Pembina Valley, water co-operative and the development of the Cartier regional water supply system. All of this spells extremely good news for rural Manitobans who will benefit directly from an improved level of programs and services that the department will be able to deliver.
Mr. Chairman, in 1997, the department was privileged to assist communities and municipalities affected by the flood. During the flood of 1997 an enhanced Green Team program was launched. As a result, an additional 139 students were posted in 13 locations affected by the flood to help the cleanup efforts.
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In closing, I want to once again acknowledge the dedication of staff to helping rural Manitobans and, in turn, drive the determination of our rural citizens to help themselves. These remain the cornerstones that will help to set the course of our department for the coming fiscal year. Manitoba Rural Development will strive to maintain the building blocks to allow rural Manitobans to move forward.
I want to thank, once again, members of this House. I would also like to mention that the co-operation that we have had from the critic for Rural Development has been appreciated. I know he has attended many of the events in rural Manitoba, and I know over time when there are problems that exist in the rural communities he has come forward and we have tried to work these out together. So, with that, Mr. Chairman, I conclude my remarks.
Mr. Chairperson: We thank the minister for those comments.
Does the official opposition critic, the honourable member for Interlake, have an opening statement?
Mr. Clif Evans (Interlake): I do have a few comments and I will be brief, but I want to make some points with respect to rural development. First of all, I would like to also say that, in being a critic for Rural Development now for the past four or five years, it has been an interesting four or five years in seeing rural Manitoba as a whole. Having the opportunity to meet with mayors and reeves and the communities themselves through the past five years has given me an enhancement as to what the needs are and how rural Manitobans are making plans for their areas and trying to make their own communities a good place to live and a place to be.
The minister mentioned the programs that are in place and have been in place, how they have helped and how they are there to help for the future. He talks about youth unemployment being down. He talks about water and sewer; he talks about policing; new assessment Municipal Act. All those have been a part of the process for the past few years, and in some ways they have been successful.
I understand that rural development is a very important part of our province; however, I also understand that rural development can only be a success, an economic success and a success for people moving to rural Manitoba and living in rural Manitoba if they have the services that are required to be and to work and to live in rural Manitoba.
For economic development in areas, we need the other services, services that do not necessarily comply or are within the scope of the Rural Development department, but are an integral part for the survival of rural Manitobans. The minister mentioned the health and the education and how important that is. Rural Manitobans and rural development cannot survive if those services are not provided, if those services are not there, if the health services are not there.
Young people or business people in rural Manitoba are not going to be able to sustain the viability in a rural community without having these services. Education, infrastructure, these are all important parts of the livelihoods of rural Manitobans in this province. Granted that we have all these programs available, granted that we have the new initiatives that have been created within the Department of Rural Development, but I ask the minister, and I will be asking the minister, throughout the process of Estimates: How better can we improve rural Manitoba, not just specifically with the programs that his department has in place, but what about the Department of Rural Development encouraging the services that he talked about be better provided for our rural communities? That, I think, is a very important piece of this puzzle.
The minister comes from a small community, as I do. He understands how important it is not only to have economic development within, not only to have the entrepreneurship, not only to have the opportunities for young people to be working in their own communities and not having to move out for jobs. He understands that I think. I believe he does, as I do, and what I have seen, and the minister can argue with me on that all he wants, and being a part of going to all these different events and programs that the minister's department has in place, and I look forward to going to the Rural Forum again, and I will mention that, but it is those services that will make rural Manitobans better.
Putting in and having the initiative for a community to put in, as in my community we are looking forward to the peat moss operation coming in there the next few years. But is the Rural Development department--they are encouraging the process of having that operation come into the Riverton and Bifrost area, but the government as a whole, the minister talks about how great the government has done things, but for rural Manitobans, we also need and I am going back to it, but I want to emphasize how important that is. If you have an operation such as the peat moss operation in an area, what do you need with those? You need people to be employed there, you need the services, you need infrastructure, you need health, you need the schools to be able to educate the young people and the kids of the parents that hopefully will move into that area to work.
What I am trying to say is that I want to get the support of the minister and his department in not only just dealing with the programs and the issues that he is dealing with within his mandate. There are the others that I would like to see this minister go and encourage his colleagues in cabinet, his Health minister, his Education minister, Highways minister, to be a part of the rural development.
To be able to provide what his department is attempting to do, you cannot necessarily do it if you do not have all those other services in play, good services. We have to be able to, in other words, encourage. For a community to encourage a business or an opportunity to come into its community, you need those other services. They are too important. Someone is not going to look at a community to expand or to come in and build something and start something. They have to look first at the infrastructure. They look first at the water and sewer system. They look first at the education system provided within that area, the health care service provided within that area.
So we encourage the minister's department in some of the programs that he is responsible for, the department is responsible for. We support it, I support it, but what I do not support is the lack of initiative in making our rural communities a better place to be and live because of the lack of services that are being provided to rural and northern areas. Some success stories, yes, in certain areas of the province, and I am pleased to see them. I am pleased to see some of the initiatives through the Grow Bonds and through the REDI program and such that there has been the opportunity given to some of the communities in developing an economic boost for their areas.
Natural gas, very important. As the minister is aware, the natural gas program is now being dealt with in the Interlake region with the different communities coming into play hoping to come to some sort of a positive conclusion as when we can get going with that. I believe that the natural gas--and I have been a proponent of it for many years--will be an integral part. That is a service. That is where the services need to be provided for rural Manitobans to be able to get on and benefit and become a success.
During our Estimates process we will be asking the minister, we will be reviewing the different programs that are in place, have been put in place and those that are successful, those that perhaps have not been so successful, but we will be asking specifics on some of these programs. I will be dealing with The Municipal Act. I will be dealing with some of the issues that were brought to my attention at the last UMM convention.
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Now I made notes, and I will go by some of the notes that I have made and had made at the UMM convention. Some of the things I heard--Rural Development, the minister talks Rural Development. Yes, it is his department, but at the UMM convention, at the bear-pit session, if the minister would remember, what were the issues? What were some of the issues that were important to the rural communities, that they asked? Did they ask the Minister of Rural Development about drainage, about health care, regional boards, highways, roads, education system, education taxes? No, at the UMM convention, our community leaders were asking the government of the day about the services that are there other than Rural Development. So what was that telling the minister? Maybe the minister does not remember that, but I do.
An Honourable Member: He has been doing a good job.
Mr. Clif Evans: Well, the minister says that he is doing a good job. The minister may think he is doing a good job, but what about the rest of the government. I must say, too, issues that were there and spoken to were the other services in the other departments, so I want to let the minister know that even though we here believe that Rural Development can be an integral part of the province, and is an integral part of the province, there are the other services that can make Rural Development growth and strength become better, can bring people out to rural communities, can enhance diversification, can enhance sustainability, can enhance all those things.
I want to see the rural communities grow. I do not want to see people moving out of Riverton, out of Arborg, out of Moosehorn. I want people to stay. I want the young people to stay, and that is part of it. We cannot maintain and we cannot encourage if we do not have all the services that are in place to make our rural development grow and the department become even more successful. It needs all the other aspects.
I will be dealing again, as I said before, issues about The Municipal Act. I know that The Municipal Act has been in place now for two years, it will be two years or just about two years. I know that during the process of committees and dealing with The Municipal Act, there were questions asked, and I know that the minister had indicated that as those questions would be asked and points brought out about The Municipal Act, that he would be dealing with them. We will question as to whether that is happening.
We will also be dealing with the Water Services Board. We will be dealing with pretty well all the aspects.
But, Mr. Chair, I would like to, in closing, say that the department, I will support, we will support as long as the minister--and we will raise that--if the minister, from his chair, will not support rural Manitobans and our initiatives in what I have said here in my opening statements about the other services. I do not want this minister to sit back and say my department is doing everything it can. Yes, perhaps it is, but can it do enough if his government continues to take away a lot of what is needed in rural Manitoba. The minister shakes his head. Things may be rosy in some areas but things are not totally rosy everywhere. So rural Manitobans need the support of this minister in encouraging his government to provide all the services for rural Manitobans that will make rural Manitoba a thriving community.
I would like to also in closing just say that I have had and I am sure my colleagues have had some positive dealings not only with the minister, but I know that the staff in many, many situations have been more than supportive and helpful and have provided all the necessary information and support and work towards any issues that I have brought forward. I encourage that and hopefully it will continue, and I am sure it will. If it does not, the minister will certainly be reminded that his department is there for rural Manitobans if an issue is brought forward.
We will be dealing with numerous other issues and, Mr. Chairman, I thank you for the opportunity to provide my opening remarks.
Mr. Chairperson: We thank the critic of the official opposition for those remarks. I would remind members of the committee that the debate on the Minister's Salary, item 13.1.(a), is deferred until all other items on the Estimates of the department are passed. At this time we invite the minister's staff to take their places in the Chamber.
Is the minister prepared to introduce his staff present today?
Mr. Derkach: I would like to first of all introduce my deputy minister, Mr. Winston Hodgins; along with him, we have Director of Human Resources Ms. Marilyn Robinson; as well, our Executive Director of Finance and Administration, Denise Carlyle; and also the Chief of Financial Services, Administrative and Human Resource Services, Mr. Brian Johnston.
Mr. Chairperson: I thank the minister for that. At this time we will be dealing with item 13.1. Administration and Finance (b) Executive Support (1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $420,400.
Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): I want to begin by thanking my colleague the member for Interlake (Mr. Clif Evans) for allowing me to have a few moments at the beginning of Estimates, because I have other commitments that I will not be able to participate a little later on in the Estimates process, but I have a few areas that I would like to ask the minister a few questions in.
One of the first areas that the minister mentioned in his opening comments is the expansion of natural gas to rural Manitoba. He talked about the successes of that. One of the areas that is near and dear to my heart is the expansion of natural gas to the Swan River Valley. The minister knows that we have been trying for many years to get gas into the area. It was part of the government's election announcement in 1995 that the expansion would take place. Louisiana-Pacific built their operation based on natural gas coming to the area. It is now three years. I know a lot of work has been done, but nothing is happening.
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I would like the minister to indicate where that whole process is. In particular, I would like to ask the minister why Swan River is being treated differently than other parts of the province because it is my understanding, according to the committee, that Louisiana-Pacific has been asked to be a contributing partner in the funding of the expansion of natural gas, but in no other part of the province, I am told, has the corporate section been required to be a partner. It has been the three levels of government that have been the partners, not the business. If that is the case, it seems unfair to this company because we are anticipating that once we have natural gas there are going to be other opportunities for business to establish in the area. We are very hopeful of that, but it appears that there would then be an unfair advantage to the other companies that come in if Louisiana-Pacific is required to be a partner and put money into the project while other companies that are coming in will not be required. So that is a fairly broad-ranged question, I realize, but it is a very important issue, and we are very anxious to hear the announcement that natural gas will be coming to the Swan River Valley.
Mr. Derkach: The member for Swan River is quite correct in that this is a very important initiative for her area, but it is also very important for the province of Manitoba. As I indicated in my opening remarks, the extension of services like natural gas to rural communities is not unlike the extension of hydro and telephone to rural communities in the past. This is an essential service that is required by any community if it is to attract growth and attract industry and attract business.
The member is also correct in that this was a commitment that was made by government to extend the service to Swan River. As I recall, when we launched the gas initiative some years ago, one of the first communities, and one that looked most viable, was the Swan River area, but there has been a lot of history with regard to the extension of that service to the Swan River area. I am not going to repeat it all, but there have been some challenges that have been encountered as a result. For one reason or another, there have been times when we have backed away from the initiative because of a variety of circumstances, where there were not enough sign-ups or an approach was taken that was not quite adequate to meet sort of the requirements that were established or the criteria that were established.
So we are still in the process of doing some very diligent and very hard work with the community, with the potential users of the service. We are probably closer now than we have ever been to actually getting that service in place, and I am very optimistic that will happen this year. The member knows that it is not just the province that is the provider of the service. As a matter of fact, it is a partnership. The partnership is between the users, whether they are commercial or residential, the federal government, the provincial government and, of course, the local government.
The member asked the question about why Louisiana-Pacific is asked to contribute. Mr. Chairman, when we build infrastructure to--and infrastructure is not just natural gas; infrastructure may include a variety of things, whether it is roads, whether it is water and sewer. It could be rail connections, it could be sidings, spur lines; all of those types of things are considered infrastructure. When we enter into agreements with communities and companies that are looking to locate, we as a province try to make sure that we do not disadvantage other entities by providing direct dollars to a company, and that is not our purpose. Our purpose is to help provide those services and the infrastructure that is required to make the entity viable and provide whatever services are required for it to operate.
In the case of Louisiana-Pacific, when Louisiana-Pacific was indeed locating in Swan River, there was an agreement struck that there would be a participation of a certain level by the company as well, and it was on that basis that we proceeded to approach the federal government through the infrastructure program for funding for the project. It was with the participation of the four entities that we were able to divide the portioning of how much each party would be putting in. To that extent, we have been negotiating on that basis. Louisiana-Pacific has been negotiating with us in terms of how they can participate over a longer period of time rather than putting their money in in cash, and that is exactly where we are at right now.
But in order for them to be able to participate over a period of time, it is going to require some funding for the interest costs that are going to be incurred. They have asked that those be absorbed by the community and also the other two partners, being the federal and provincial governments. At this point in time, we are awaiting word from the federal government in terms of their participation in an equal share, if you like. What it will do, with the federal government's participation, is it will lower the commitment that has to be made from the other partners. So we are hopeful and we are looking forward to a response from the federal government. Once that is in place, I do not believe there are any hurdles that I foresee that would stop us from proceeding with the initiative. So I am looking forward to that response coming back shortly and our being able to actually see some positive physical work, if you like, happening during the course of this construction year.
Ms. Wowchuk: I, too, am looking forward to that construction commencing. The minister indicated that they were going back to the federal government for what I believe he might be saying is additional funds. One of the concerns was that there was a deadline where federal funding through the infrastructure program could expire. Have negotiations taken place to ensure that that infrastructure money does not expire, and is the money that the minister is talking about, as far as covering off the interest, additional money that the government is looking for from the federal government?
Mr. Derkach: Mr. Chairman, I guess we still have some time before the contractual deadline comes up--I think it is March 31, 1999--for the spending of the infrastructure dollars, so we still have this construction season to be able to fulfill our obligations or to spend that money. She is quite correct in that this is additional money that we have requested, and we are hoping that the response will come quickly and that we will, in fact, be able to get on with the work so that the money can be used effectively this construction season. The federal government could extend the deadline, and it has done this in other cases. So if, for some reason, we found ourselves in a position where we cannot proceed with construction this year, I would certainly be approaching the minister to see whether or not we could extend the deadline for that. I do not want to see this initiative lost. We have invested too much time and energy and money, and I think it is very critical to the area that we get that service in as soon as possible.
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Ms. Wowchuk: I am pleased that there is the opportunity to extend the length of time that the money will be available. My concern was it was my understanding from local people that the deadline was up in 1998, and things are not going along as quickly as we would like. We will continue to pursue this and hope that natural gas will become a reality in the area. It is very important to the economy of area. There are opportunities for, as I said, different industries. There is a feed mill that is looking at coming into the area that we need natural gas for. So I encourage the minister to pursue this on behalf of all the people of the Swan River Valley.
I want to ask only one more question on this. I would like to know and I do not expect the minister would have these numbers at his hands, but what the additional funding is that is going to be required from the federal government. If the minister could provide that at some point, and also can the minister tell us where the plans are at this point, where is, at the present time, the plan for natural gas to be coming from? Are they still planning to bring the natural gas up from the Roblin area or are they once again looking at Saskatchewan from the Norquay area? Has that plan changed, and can the minister indicate where we are at on that and where the gas will be coming from?
Mr. Derkach: With regard to the additional costs, I cannot give her a specific number on that because that is based on an interest rate that can be negotiated, so it is a third, if you like, of that that we are looking for. But the interest rates are somewhere in that 6 percent, 7 percent area.
With regard to where the gas is coming from, we had thought that the most inexpensive route would have been from Norquay, Saskatchewan; however, in the last plan that was put together and the numbers that were put together, it appears that it is less expensive to bring gas from Roblin rather than from Norquay. So that is Centra Gas who is really responsible for giving us those numbers and giving us the best routes, so they, in conjunction with the entire project, have decided that the Roblin route is the one that they will be taking the gas from.
Ms. Wowchuk: I am sure we will have further discussions on this issue. I hope that the next discussion that we can be having is the announcement that the project will be on and then I would be very pleased.
Another very important service in all of Manitoba, but in particular in the Parklands is transportation. The minister is well aware that in the area that he represents, as well as the area that I represent, we have had a loss of service of transportation through railway and a tremendous shift over to road traffic, for which our roads are not constructed for.
Can the minister indicate whether his department is playing any role in putting towards a transportation strategy, some looking towards the future about transportation patterns and where we would see traffic moving and whether or not railway plays an important part in this, or whether he envisions that it is going to be road traffic that is the important routes that we have to use, and whether or not his department is playing any role in developing a strategy as to which roads have to be upgraded and whether or not he sees the rail still playing an important role?
Mr. Derkach: It is a good question because I think it is a very important issue for rural Manitoba. I may say to the member that I had the opportunity last night of being part of a ceremony where another high throughput grain facility was announced for the community of Shoal Lake by United Grain Growers' ADM. This, once again, is going to add another significant strain on the roads of that western side of that province. That is the side of the province, Mr. Chairman, where we have lost, I think, the largest number of kilometres of rail line in the entire province.
That is why when the Crow rate benefit was being negotiated and was being debated, we emphasized very strongly that that money we felt needed to go to roads, and it was somewhat sad to see that only a million dollars out of that total package had been dedicated to roads, and that happened to be a road in the Dauphin area. It was actually 366, and we are not sure where it is. It is a provincial road and that road, instead of pavement, needs to be rebuilt, as the member will know.
In fact, we have been involved in terms of working with municipalities to make sure that they identify what their priorities are in terms of routes, truck routes especially, within their municipalities connecting to our PRs and our major highways. There has been some response by municipalities where they have actually come out with plans, with maps, with outlined routes that they would like to see upgraded and maintained as truck routes for the heavy traffic but, having said that, this province cannot by itself try and upgrade to the necessary standards the road infrastructure.
The Minister of Highways (Mr. Findlay) and I were in Shoal Lake last night, and one of the concerns in that area of course is a piece of road that was just completed two years ago and is starting to show signs of deterioration already because of the increased demand and heavy traffic that has been placed on these roads. The Minister of Highways is more in tune with what is happening specifically in terms of highways in the province, and I would have to say that we are trying to address the situations as best we can. However, we do need the participation of the federal government. I believe--and the numbers can be verified with the Minister of Highways--there is something in the neighbourhood of $200 million that is collected by the federal government by way of fuel taxes. That money is not coming back to our province, and it is having an impact on our roads.
So within the restraints, we do work with the Department of Highways and their limited amount of funds to address the situations. We have put together committees to look at all aspects of development within a given area. I refer to Maple Leaf in Brandon where we have a working committee which brings together several departments to look at all types of issues including transportation and what areas need to be upgraded to provide access to the facilities that are being built around the province.
But I think if the member would, I would encourage her to discuss this issue specifically when the Minister of Highways' Estimates come because he certainly has much more information and much more clarity on things of this nature than I do.
Ms. Wowchuk: I did not mean to put the minister on the spot asking questions about highways, but what I am looking for, what I think would be a good idea, and I am looking for the minister--whether he would support a concept where we would have a strategy committee where we would look at the whole province and look at where we are going as far as transportation of goods, because there are changing patterns and we have more transportation going on roads now, and get this plan in place. Then you can then go to the federal government and say, look, this is the impact of your changes here; we are going to need more money to upgrade these roads in the province.
I think that Rural Development has to be involved in it, as well as the Department of Highways and various departments of government to put in place a plan as to where the government thinks transportation patterns are going to change and put in place a strategy that says, okay, over the next 10 years we can see that there is going to be a lot more traffic on these particular roads, and then take this plan to the federal government. I have to agree with the minister, it is disgraceful on the part of the federal government to be taking this much money, millions of dollars in fuel tax revenues, and not recognizing their responsibility to upgrading roads when it has been the federal government that has allowed for rail line abandonment and a change to the transportation subsidy. So the federal government does have responsibility.
I think we have to put together a plan, a strategy to the federal government to say: look, this has been the impact, this is where we see we are going to need some help. That is what I am looking for from the minister, whether he supports the concept and whether there is any combination of various departments at the present time looking into the future about where our transportation is going.
Mr. Derkach: Mr. Chairman, there are several approaches that are taken with regard to the improvement of infrastructure in the province, specifically highways. I know the minister has a working group, a committee that he uses fairly effectively, and it is made up of various players in the province, including such organizations as KAP and UMM and MAUM. We also have a sectoral committee which looks at how we expend dollars and how we can more effectively share resources to ensure that as much as possible our dollars are utilized for infrastructure and highways, because that is a critical area.
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We have, as I said, a committee made up of staff within various government departments who have an interest and a responsibility in this area, who work together to put cases forward, work together with the federal officials, and I would have to say that I am looking forward. We have been told that the Minister of Agriculture federally is coming to the forum this year, and we will be looking forward to meeting with him and impressing upon him the importance of addressing these issues.
I have to say that through UMM and the municipalities, there is a constant, I guess, effort being made to look at how we can more effectively address those transportation issues that are before us, because they are huge, and we certainly are not backing away from that. It is just that a province like ours has limited resources in terms of how we can address some of these areas that should have some input from the federal government, and I am not trying to pass the buck here. I am just saying that we are aware of it. We are pooling our resources provincially. We do have several working committees and we are moving ahead as much as we can.
Ms. Wowchuk: Just to clarify to the minister, I know that the government cannot afford to do this and we have to, the federal government has to have some responsibility in transportation. Manitoba has lost to a great extent and by planning together as various departments I think that hopefully we can put more pressure on the federal government to live up to their responsibility. That is what I was getting at.
Mr. Derkach: I thank the member for that. I just want to put on the record that the prairie provinces as a result of the loss of the Crow have had about $720 million taken away from rural communities on an annual basis. That is why we were so emphatic about the fact that some of this money had to be returned to the highway system. So we cannot forget about that. We have to keep re-emphasizing the fact that somehow some of this money, which helped to balance the books I guess at the federal level, needs to come back to the services that are so critically needed in the West, and that means whether it is rail service or whether it is road services. We need those desperately to ensure that this part of the world does not suffer more than other parts of the country.
Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Since at this juncture in the minister's Estimates review we seem to be on various miscellaneous topics, I wonder if I could take the liberty to ask the minister whether he is considering bringing in an amendment to The Municipal Act, the newly passed Municipal Act respecting people who wish to run for municipal council, who happen to be municipal employees.
This issue was dealt with when the legislation was brought in, I realize, but I believe the minister has received correspondence from the City of Brandon on this matter. I was wondering whether he could comment on whether he is prepared to take some action on this. I appreciate the amendment that was brought in, and what it was intended. I am not really debating that, but I do think there may be a case for so-called grandfather or grandmother approach to sitting councillors to enable them to carry on, particularly, if all the evidence shows that they have made a great contribution, made a significant contribution to their council, have support in the community, and could easily be re-elected presumably if they ran again. I believe the mayor has made this point well in a letter to the minister.
I was wondering whether the minister could comment on whether he is prepared to--I think it would require an amendment to existing legislation, and this could be done of course through the statute law amendments legislation approach, if he so desired.
Mr. Derkach: The member mentioned that we are kind of floating around the various sections of the Estimates. I just want it noted that is not our choice. We will do whatever the opposition would like us to do, so I am hoping he is not thinking that we are sort of leaving that.
An Honourable Member: No, it is our choice.
Mr. Derkach: Secondly--
Mr. Leonard Evans: Just on a point of order. It is simply because of the fact that the official critic member from the Interlake (Mr. Clif Evans) unfortunately had to be away for a short time, and some of us had some miscellaneous questions, and since the minister was very co-operative, we thought we would take this opportunity. At some point, we would like to ask that question. In the interest of efficiency, this is as good a time as any, I would think.
Mr. Chairperson: The honourable member did not have a point of order--just to dispute over the facts. We had agreed to this previously when the official critic was here.
Mr. Chairperson: The honourable minister, to continue.
Mr. Derkach: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have been contacted by, or our department has been contacted by not one but several individuals regarding this issue. When The Municipal Act was brought in, it was brought in on the basis of consultation that had occurred throughout the province. This was issue of some debate at the time, and it was a fairly strong feeling by the committee and by most municipalities that those who worked for a municipality could not, should not also be eligible to sit as councillors.
I would have to say that feeling was almost unanimous in most municipalities, but they felt very strongly that if you were going to sit as a councillor, you could not also be an employee of the council, whether it was with one of the agencies of the municipality or whether it was directly for the municipality. So we honoured that, and we came in with the amendment. Since that time, as the member knows, there is a case--there is not one, there might be two cases in the province where this issue is causing some difficulty.
However, we have checked with legal counsel to see whether or not you can grandfather beyond another municipal election. We are advised that that is not possible. We did grandfather that provision until the next election which is this fall, and beyond that we would have to change The Municipal Act to allow members to run who are employees of a municipality. I do not believe that that would be supported by municipalities in general. So it is a difficult situation. We are still looking at whether there are ways in which we can accommodate this. It seems to be an issue in, specifically, I think, one, maybe two places, but, because of the contributions the individual makes, he seems to be a good councillor, one who is supported by the community and yet at the same time he is an employee of the municipality, even if it is an indirect employee and, so, I do not know. I cannot give you an answer right now on specifically how that can be addressed or if it can be, but I have asked staff to look at all possible ways in which we might be able to accommodate at least in this instance, but I cannot give you an answer whether that will be able to be accomplished or not.
Mr. Leonard Evans: I gather that what the minister is saying is that there had been some grandfather provisions but that they terminate effective this coming municipal election period, which is October this year and therefore these one or two cases you mention would be affected by that as things now stand, but the minister, as I understand, says he is continuing to look into it with the possibility of being able to accommodate, because this is a very limited situation. So the principle is in effect anyway but with a slight proviso for a couple of instances, I gather, but I do not know, I would ask the minister how he expects to do this without some amendment to the legislation. I do not know how that would be possible unless there is a way of interpreting it to get a different conclusion.
Mrs. Shirley Render, Acting Chairperson, in the Chair
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Mr. Derkach: Madam Chair, as I indicated, we are looking for solutions. It appears that if a change is embarked on it would have to include an amendment to the legislation at this time, but I have not had a full report from staff at this time, so I really cannot go beyond this. Once I learn whether there are opportunities I will be able to react at that time.
Mr. Leonard Evans: I wonder if the minister could give us some sort of a time frame.
Mr. Derkach: Madam Chair, this would have to be done in the next week or two if we are going to bring in an amendment because, if we wait much longer than that, it will be too late, but I am expecting that staff will be able to come back to me within the next week with some indications, and I would be happy to sit down with the member at that time and outline what our findings are.
Mr. Leonard Evans: Just in conclusion, I want to thank the minister for that and just reiterate my understanding that it could be done very simply if there was agreement and if it were possible through an amendment brought in in The Statute Law Amendment Act. In other words, you do not have to bring in, as I understand it, the minister does not have to bring in a new Municipal Act amendment unless he has a number of other changes, of course, but if it is just one or two isolated matters this can be handled in this omnibus approach, the law amendments legislation approach.
Mr. Derkach: We have explored that part of it, to see whether it could be brought in through statute law amendments or whether it has to come in through an amendment specifically in the act. The advice we have to this date is that it will probably have to come in as an amendment to the act.
Ms. Wowchuk: The minister indicated in his opening comments that under REDI, it spent about $80 million. I understand that some of this money is used to provide communities to do studies of different projects. I would like to ask the minister if when studies are done, when these studies become public documents, who has access to the studies?
Mr. Derkach: We contribute to feasibility studies for various projects across the province. As the member knows, we contribute only a limited amount, so the feasibility study is not entirely ours because we do not contribute the full amount to the feasibility study. The feasibility study is the property of the company. However, if the company does not proceed with the project, for one reason or another, there is a limitation as to how long that document or that work becomes the property of that company. After a period of time--and I believe it is a year, but I can research that to confirm that--if the company does not proceed with a project, then it becomes accessible to the public, provided that it does not compromise any commercial activity or any commercial enterprise.
Ms. Wowchuk: Madam Chair, I am particularly interested in the operations of the Cowan subline, the railway line. I know that there was a study done on that particular line, and an offer has been made on the line. There are difficulties in the negotiations at the present time. I do not expect the minister to have the figures with him, but I would just like to request if the minister could direct me to where I would go to find out, or he could provide me at a later date, the amount of money that was provided for that study. My understanding was that REDI funded the whole study. It was not funded by the company, that REDI paid for it, and if it is, whether or not the dates are close enough where we could have access to it.
It is important to the economy of the area, and I want to know what the results of the study are so that we can also be involved in encouraging the development of that line. So that is what I would look for. If it could be provided to me at a later date.
Mr. Chairperson in the Chair
It was through the village of Ethelbert that was asking for the study to be done. I believe the railway line is called the Canadian Northern Railway. As I say, I do not expect the minister to have those numbers at his fingertips, but if he has not, if he could direct me as to who I could go to to get some detail on the results of the study.
Mr. Derkach: Mr. Chair, to the member, I do not have the numbers with me, but we can research that. I am sure that this afternoon we should be able to have the information that she has requested.
Ms. Wowchuk: I look forward to that and, as well, if I could be provided with the name of a person that I could have discussion with on it. I am not quite sure who is in charge of that area. If that could be provided, I would appreciate it.
Another area that I would like to talk to the minister about where his department is going or what they are doing with it is the planning. With the expectation of large expansions of hog production in the province, many municipalities are looking at zoning by-laws, planning districts. Many municipalities are not doing anything. Is there any direction being given by the government to municipalities at the present time that they should be doing their zoning by-laws and doing some planning, because I think it would be a good idea. If you do planning, things go much more smoothly. If you do not do planning, you end up running into difficulties. I am looking to the minister to see what direction his department is giving to municipalities. As I understand it, about a third of the municipalities at the present time have their zoning by-laws done and the balance do not. So where is the department going on this? Is there encouragement to have the zoning by-laws done?
Mr. Derkach: Mr. Chairman, this is an important issue. Planning districts were not that important in times when there was not a lot of economic activity occurring in the rural part of the province, but now with everything just booming, municipalities are finding themselves in a position where they have to make decisions, and they are realizing the importance of planning districts. As a matter of fact, we just approved a planning district this week, but there are at least eight or nine areas of the province that are now looking very seriously and pursing the development of a planning district and development plans.
Now this take some time; you cannot do it overnight. We have redirected staff to work with municipalities who are looking at development plans. We are trying to streamline the process as well, and when I say we are trying to streamline the process, it means that we are trying to make sure that some of the things that we have been doing in the past that take five or six weeks, and when they are straightforward, can be done in less time, and this will help municipalities to make decisions, as well.
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So there is an extremely significant amount of work going on in the whole area of development plans and planning districts. We are also working with municipalities who have development plans who need to have them revised and upgraded, and there is a process that is in place to review those and to make sure that they are current and upgraded and meet the needs of the community.
So there is a lot of sensitivity about how development is taking place in some communities, not in all but in some. We, as a province, want to make sure that indeed we are not moving ahead with development in areas that are sensitive or areas that perhaps cannot sustain a particular activity. So we are working with municipalities as closely as we possibly can. We are working with individual companies, as well.
We are trying to make sure that information, that communication is out there correctly so that people who are looking at development know that if you enter into a process early before you begin construction, it is far easier for you to get a development project in place, rather than starting the project and then having to go through a whole series of hurdles before you can continue or before you can conclude the project.
So there is a lot of activity out there. We do have staff who have been redirected to work in areas where there is a lot of activity, and I would have to say that, together, we are certainly achieving some accomplishments right now.
Ms. Wowchuk: As the development in rural Manitoba can take place in any part of the province, it is important that we have development plans, that municipalities take this challenge. I would like to ask the minister whether the Department of Rural Development can say you must do a plan, or whether it is just encouragement, and if you do not have the ability to say that you must do a development plan, what steps can you take to ensure that we do not have conflicts and that the development that takes place over the next few years is sustainable and does not result in the conflicts that we have seen in some parts of the province, because there has been conflict because of lack of planning.
What direction--if you cannot say you must do a development plan, what steps is the department taking to encourage municipalities to do some forward thinking in this respect?
Mr. Derkach: Mr. Chairman, through UMM and through MAUM and through many of the regional meetings that occur throughout the province, whether they are mayors' and reeves' meetings or whether they are the regional meetings, we have staff there almost--I should not say almost--we have staff at every one of those types of meetings to ensure that municipalities know that this, in fact, is what we are encouraging as a province. We always have been, but in many instances municipalities were not interested. This is not something that we can force down the throats of municipalities. It is something that we want to encourage them to do, and we would work with them in partnership.
As municipalities see what is happening in terms of rapid growth, rapid expansion and development, they see the need to organize how their communities are going to grow, and they see the need for business plans, development plans, planning districts. We also have a committee that is looking at this whole issue. It is not just a single window, if you like, because there are many areas that one has to look at. You have to look at such things as guidelines for how development occurs, guidelines on how you--for example, manure guidelines in the hog industry have now been strengthened. So all of those areas have to be looked at. In terms of land use, I can tell the member that municipalities today are much, much more aware than they were even two years ago about the need for proper land-use policies.
We have provincial land-use policies that are in place and give guidance to municipalities. Where there are no development plans, they use our provincial policies to ensure that there are the proper kinds of issues looked at before development goes ahead.
In most instances, I would have to say that there is more emotional feedback on development than there is factual feedback from communities. So we have to work with communities as well and make sure that they understand some of the procedures that have to be undertaken in order for development to go ahead. It is a communication effort as well. I would indicate to the member that everything possible is being done to work with municipalities as a partnership in approaching development in the province.
Ms. Wowchuk: Can the minister indicate whether or not there is adequate staff within the Department of Rural Development to do this planning, or is it going to require bringing outside people in to help with this planning, and are there any plans to bring in additional people on staff to ensure that we can do long-range planning and there are enough people there to work along with municipalities and also with communities?
I have been out and talked to a lot of people who feel that there just is not enough information out there. They seem to feel the departments are willing to work with proponents of proposals, but the people who have concerns about water and manure spreading and all of those things, there is not enough information. But basically my concern is with the planning and whether or not there is adequate staff and how the minister is proposing to deal with this.
Mr. Derkach: Mr. Chairman, today there are many more private companies who do this kind of work for municipalities than there have been in the past. We have consultants who have, I guess, developed companies who have expertise in doing development plans for municipalities. As the member knows, these are areas that are paid for by municipalities, not something that government takes responsibility for for municipalities. So we have a group of individual companies who are now working in rural Manitoba with municipalities, along with our staff.
In addition to that, we feel that the staffing levels that we have are adequate for the co-ordination and for the work that we have been doing in the past. We feel that municipalities should be beginning to rely on the expertise of the companies that are out there who have the ability to do the kind of work that has traditionally been done by the government because it was done on such a limited basis. It was all, if you like, a very learning experience, but today we are in a different mode, and I think that there are companies out there who can certainly be of significant assistance in this area. We are giving that information to municipalities.
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About a month ago, there was a planning conference held for the western side of the province, because as the member knows, that is where we have fewer planning districts, and it was attended--I forget what the numbers were, but there was a large number of people at this conference who were eager to learn more about planning.
Information is available and it is at the offices of the municipalities, but it is up to their administrations to really lead their councillors, if you like, and to make sure that their councillors have the information at hand, but the information is available. We continue to provide it and make it available to anyone who needs it and wants it.
I was very encouraged by the numbers of people who actually were at this conference. I know there were well over a hundred, but I am not sure what the specific number was.
Ms. Wowchuk: Was that particular conference sponsored by the Department of Rural Development?
Mr. Derkach: The conference was a joint conference sponsored jointly by the department as well as the planning consultants association, I think that is what they are called. I may be wrong about the specific title, but it is the association that deals with the planners, who in conjunction with our department put this conference on. We had our staff at the conference, and they certainly contributed to it.
Ms. Wowchuk: I just want to say to the minister that I believe this is one of the most important areas that we have work to do on within the Department of Rural Development. I encourage him to, if necessary, communicate with councils, and if you cannot give them the direction to do some planning, point out to them the importance of it, so that we do not run into problems further down the road. We look forward to seeing the results and hopefully more planning districts developing over the next year in this province.
I want to go onto another area. The minister talked about the rural forum which is going into its sixth year, and I just want to ask the minister how does the funding for this forum take place? Is it funded by strictly the Department of Rural Development, or is it funded by various departments? On an annual basis what does the Department of Rural Department put forward towards this forum?
Mr. Derkach: Mr. Chairman, later on I will be happy to distribute copies of the brochure for the rural forum. I do not have enough with me, right now. Originally the forum, as the member knows, was an initiative that arose out of a meeting with the Community Newspapers Association in Neepawa, and for the first while it was funded by the department. As the forum grew we began to reach out to private companies, organizations to help us with the sponsorship side of the forum. We began making sure that appropriate fees were being charged, as much as you could, so slowly we have been growing in terms of the sponsorship of the conference. Right now, I believe--I do not know the number of partners we have, but I think it is--[interjection] Twenty-five, I am told, partners that assist us in putting this event on. It has been growing, so as the conference grows the costs become somewhat higher, but also our contributions from private companies, agencies and organizations are more significant today than they were in the past. As a matter of fact, this year I am really quite encouraged by the number of companies who have come forward and have offered to sponsor various sections of the forum. I think that is positive, and I am hoping that we continue in that direction where more of the conference is sponsored by private companies, rather than by government.
Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Chairman, various government departments participate in the conference. I am wondering if the minister can provide, at some point, a list of the--or whether anybody documents this--various government departments that participate and the number of staff from various departments that take part in the conference, and also if he could tell me whether or not there are costs to the forum that are paid for by other departments. I am looking for some understanding--the minister indicates that the Department of Rural Development does not pay as much money towards the conference as it did before. A bigger portion of the cost is being paid by the private sector, and that is good--but I am looking for a breakdown of how many people from various departments participate and what the cost would be to the other departments to sponsor the forum.
Mr. Derkach: Well, Mr. Chair, to the member, when we started the forum six years ago, it was basically one that was done by Rural Development, but because of the different areas that it involved, we reached out to other departments. They were more than willing to come in as participants, and today we have a number of departments that contribute in various forums, many through staff, many through direct contributions, whether it is a display or whether it is a section of the forum that they undertake to sponsor or various ways.
I do not have the specific numbers, and I do not even know if I can tell the member how many staff come out. This is one area that I would like to spend a moment on, because I have never seen the kind of dedication that we have now towards the forum at any point in time in my career here in the Legislature. We have staff from the department, not only my department but other departments, working a lot of overtime, and I can tell the member quite honestly they do not post all their overtime. They post very little of their overtime. They meet on weekends. They work on weekends. They work at nights. It has even gotten to the point where their spouses are coming out and participating and contributing to putting the forum on. So I guess I need to say thank you to all of those people who so generously give of their time to be part of the forum. This is the largest trade show in western Canada now. It is not just a small event that happens in Manitoba.
Our significant partners who have as much stake in it as perhaps we do are departments like the Department of Agriculture, Manitoba Culture, Heritage, and Citizenship, Manitoba Education and Training, Manitoba Industry, Trade and Tourism, and Manitoba Northern Affairs. These are the larger participants and contributors to the forum, but indeed there are other departments as well. For example, Natural Resources has a significant presence there. Department of Environment contributes by their presence there in making sure that they have their staff there to answer questions, whether it is on hog expansion or whether it is on guidelines or whatever it is. So there is a need.
This has become a fairly broad-ranging kind of event which is participated in by many departments and their staff. I cannot say who or how many numbers there are from other departments, but I can tell you they are everyone, right from deputy ministers' level through to secretarial level and administrative level who participate and help and lend a helping hand. It has truly become a very, very encouraging event, if I can use that term.
I do have an extra copy, Mr. Chair. As a matter of fact, I will send two copies over for now, and I can deliver more later. These are just the brochures.
Ms. Wowchuk: Then I believe that what I am looking for is not available. Basically, the minister says it is a good event. I agree with him. I know many students participate, and I know that the students from my area, from the Swan Valley School Division, have been very successful in the competition. I look forward to their success in this year's competition. They have done very well there. I have talked to other students who have been to the event and found it very informative.
But what I am looking for is a summary, and perhaps at some point the minister can--when this forum is over, it might be worthwhile to just review the number of hours, roughly, that are required to participate in it, the number of staff that it has required. The Minister of Highways (Mr. Findlay) indicated earlier or asked whether I was on some kind of a witch hunt. That is not what I am after at all. What I am looking for is really what kind of involvement, what kind of staff hours. It is a good event. We would want to look at how we could improve it. So I am quite interested in looking at the amount of time people have to put into it, and then you can do some weighing on it. That is what I am looking for.
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So I guess I would ask the minister if at some point after this Rural Forum is over whether he might be able to have his staff do a summary of what the costs are of the forum from the various departments, and then evaluate. It is fair to evaluate anything that goes on to compare the costs and benefits of it and just see how much work is in it. I wonder whether the minister might consider such a project.
Mr. Derkach: Mr. Chairman, I would almost hate to ask the staff to start keeping the amount of time they spend on this. We could probably tell the member what the regular time, if you like, of a day is spent on the forum, but I would have to say that some of the key staff who are involved in the forum, not just from our department but from others, spend as much, if not more, time of their own, in overtime, which is not paid for, which they do not necessarily log. They do not keep the amount of time they work. As an example, I asked for a briefing and an update on the forum a couple of weeks ago or a week ago, and it was late at night before I could get there. Staff were patient to wait there until such time that I got there. We spent, I would say, until one o'clock in the morning going through the various areas of the forum, and I know that the next morning they all had commitments, early, to be at events. This is the kind of commitment that you see from that staff, or from the staff people at work, and I have to emphasize it is not just my department. It is staff from other departments.
In addition to that, we have people from the private sector who are coming forward after working hours and are contributing this kind of time, so it would be very difficult for me to try and guesstimate the number of hours that are put in by people both from government and from the private sector. I am not trying to avoid the question or avoid the exercise but I just do not know how we would ever get an accurate amount of time that was spent on the forum. The member knows, because she has been there, that this is a co-operative effort that takes the work of many, many people and many, many hours.
Ms. Wowchuk: Then I would ask, I am sure after an event such as this there must be a review. Various people who have been involved in it must do a review on the successes and failures of the event, and I am sure during that time they must look at whether too much time was spent on it. Would the minister then be prepared after this event is over in this year to share with us a critique of the event, or does his staff do a critique of the event and look at where it could be improved or whether there are any downfalls to the event that can be improved on?
Mr. Derkach: Mr. Chair, I guess since we became involved in Rural Forum, and as I said, this is the sixth one, there has been an evaluation done after each and every one of the forums. The evaluations include my participation and involvement in terms of looking at the successes and what perhaps needed to be changed and what new opportunities were required as a result of feedback that we get.
We do get feedback from the participants and from people who attend the event, and each year there has been, I guess, a demand for more things and for expansion of the program. The member might know that this year we have added the northern component because we feel that northern communities need to be involved. As a matter of fact, from the Western Premiers' meeting there was a directive given to us who are involved in this area to ensure that northern communities are in fact worked with and that there is some activity that is embarked on to include northern communities in economic development.
So this year's forum has a special feature for northern communities, and I might add that we have already received 60 registrations from the Northwest Territories for this year's forum, first time ever, and those participants are from all over the Northwest Territories including the future capital of the new Nunavut Territory being Iqaluit. We also have northern communities who are coming out significantly this year.
The member mentioned students. At this point in time, it is the highest registration we have ever had of students. We have a significant number of students coming from northern Manitoba. We also have the international component, because there has been a request by countries outside of Canada to come to the event. It is not something that we initiated. It is something that people picked up from brochures or heard about and they are inquiring. They are wanting to ensure that they either share some of their success stories or they want to come and look at our success stories and take them back with them as well.
So we do an evaluation after every event. We include our partners. We include the people who work at the forum. We include the people who exhibit at the forum in doing an evaluation so that there is input for future forums as well. I do not know how we would measure what the advantages are of holding a forum as compared to not holding it. I think it is an expected event now by rural communities to be able to come together once a year to share their successes, to show how they can grow, and to take part in the--and although this is not emphasized a lot, the very important part of the forum are the seminars that take place during the three days. There are a number of seminars that are being delivered that have arisen out of the comments and out of the consultations we have had with partners and with people who participate in the forum.
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So we try to tailor the forum to the needs that have been expressed by communities and to ensure that we actually meet their objectives and their hopes and their desires.
Ms. Wowchuk: I thank the minister for that information. I want to say that I am very pleased that northern communities are becoming so involved in this, because I believe a good part of our future is in the North. We have to look at growth in the North for tourism, and we have a lot of activity in northern Manitoba that is not recognized. I hope that if this is successful we might consider changing the name of the forum to a rural and northern forum, so people from northern Manitoba recognize that they are an important part of the province.
Quite often people from the North feel that, oh, you talk about rural Manitoba and you talk about urban centres but the North is neglected--although they play a very important part in the economy. So as a suggestion, I suggest to the minister to consider that, to open that door or recognize the North a little more in this forum. One of the things that comes along with coming from northern Manitoba is the expense of travel and registration.
Of course, as the minister knows, many places in northern Manitoba do not have the funds. So could the minister indicate as part of this whether there is any pool of money that is available for transportation or how do we address ensuring that people from northern Manitoba have the ability to participate? People that are coming from the Northwest Territories and internationally, of course, if they are coming, they are going to have the funds to come. I am more concerned for people from northern Manitoban, people from our aboriginal communities. Has the minister and his department recognized this as a possible problem, and have you looked at ways to address this to ensure that there are not barriers there for those people that want to participate in this forum?
Mr. Derkach: Mr. Chair, with respect to the northern communities, the member is quite right. It is a very important part of our province and an important part of the forum. That is why we have a special emphasis on the northern component this year.
The Minister of Northern Affairs (Mr. Newman) is going to be opening up the sessions that involve the northern communities event. The member might know that I have the responsibility for the MOU that has been signed between the Northwest Territories and Manitoba. Earlier this year, I led a delegation, along with my colleague the Minister of Northern Affairs to the Northwest Territories where we took 23-or-some-odd businesses with us to the Northwest Territories to try and promote our province to them, to allow them to know that we do care about them, that they are an important part of us, that the business that we have been doing with them has been valued.
We had, as a matter of fact, the new CEO of the OmniTRAX people with us, a variety of businesses, significant businesses in Manitoba who were with us. We were received royally, and I think, as a result of that, they felt an attachment to Manitoba. They told us that directly. They feel that Manitoba is a part of them, and they want to be participants in the activities that occur in our province. So, as a result of that, I think we have the 60-odd registrations now that are coming from the Northwest Territories.
In addition to that, I have to relate a story that came to us just recently from a northern community where students were challenged to raise enough money to pay their transportation to the forum. We were told that it was not a small figure; it was somewhere in the neighbourhood of $14,000, as I understand it. We were told that they had already met their challenge and raised the money. So those are the kinds of good-news stories that you hear with people coming together, pooling their resources, and affording to come. We do provide for accommodation when they do come to Brandon. We make sure that there is accommodation for them. It is not always in a hotel, because, as the member knows, we cannot accommodate everyone.
I would have to say that the Minister of Northern Affairs and his department have been most co-operative. They are doing some sponsoring of targeted, I guess, groups or individuals whom they see as important to being at the forum. So those kinds of initiatives are ongoing, and we continue to work with them to make sure that people from northern Manitoba have access to the forum. We have always had participation from northern Manitoba at the forum. It has not been as significant or, as I guess, at the level that it is this year. This year we decided to make the northern part of it an emphasis, so we are getting a lot more response to that.
We have also reached out to the city of Winnipeg, to the Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce. We have talked to the restaurant association. We have talked to a variety of people in Winnipeg. Red River Exhibition is a partner this year. So we are trying to reach out to all corners of the province to make sure that we have a fairly broad participation at the forum from anyone who is interested, anyone who has some, I guess, desire to be there.
We work with the northern round table. The Minister of Northern Affairs (Mr. Newman) has certainly been a promoter with the northern round table to make sure that everyone in northern Manitoba is aware of the forum and aware that there is a special component of it.
With regard to the name, that is something that we have not addressed to this point in time, but there is nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with making this a broader type of event than it has been.
Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Chairman, another important component of our population in rural and northern and urban centres of Manitoba is our First Nations communities, and I want to ask the minister whether at any time First Nations have participated in any way in this forum and whether any attempt has been made to reach into that community to be part of this.
Mr. Derkach: As a matter of fact, Mr. Chairman, we have included First Nations in events at the forum. If the member had an opportunity to see the video last year, there were aboriginal people featured, and companies featured in the video. We had entertainers, performers at the forum who were aboriginal First Nations people, and we had an exhibitor as well, but I cannot tell the member the name at this time. So, yes indeed, we do reach out. We certainly would like to see even more participation in that regard.
The department's round table process is now working with communities in the Northwest Territories, and encouraging them to form round tables, and through the Minister of Northern Affairs (Mr. Newman), who has responsibility in that area, we are encouraging as much participation from the aboriginal community as we can.
Mr. Chairperson: The hour being 12 noon, pursuant to the rules, I am interrupting the proceedings of the Committee of Supply with the understanding that the Speaker will resume the Chair at 1:30 p.m. today and that after Routine Proceedings the Committee of Supply will resume consideration of the Estimates. Thank you.