4th-36th--Vol. 12--Oral Questions

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, my question is to the First Minister (Mr. Filmon). Our neighbours, our constituents, people across this province are absolutely shocked at the situation in our Manitoba health care system. They are shocked at the numbers of patients in the hallways. They are shocked at the crisis and the staffing situations in our hospitals. They are shocked at the situation where ambulances have to travel around the community to find a place to bring patients in need of vital care, and they are absolutely shocked that this government, after nine budgets, after all kinds of statements and promises, is today cancelling elective surgery.

I would like to ask the Premier: why is this happening to Manitoba?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, there was no doubt that our hospital system, particularly in the city of Winnipeg over the last number of weeks, was put under a great deal of strain primarily because of an epidemic of flu that has infected not just the province of Manitoba but has spread across the country and, in fact, has put the same degree of strain on hospital systems in other jurisdictions, even some represented by New Democrats.

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Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, a person who is responsible for a Department of Health that closes over hundreds of beds and still then challenges us to find a few of the beds--he does not even know the situation in his own hospital--we no longer have any faith in the present Minister of Health, and his other immature comments I think are worthy of contempt.

The Premier (Mr. Filmon) has had three ministers of Health now, and he made promises in 1995 to spend over $600 million in capital. Of course, these promises were made before the election, just like the promises before the election in 1990 were made.

When will the Premier take responsibility for the situation? The dire situation in health care is his fault for cancelling and breaking his promise for needed capital spending for the people of this province.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition does not have to get personal in this debate against me or any other Minister of Health, and I am not certainly trying to belittle any comments that he makes.

There is no doubt that all of us across this country, in managing health care systems over the last number of years, have pushed our systems to get the maximum out of them. There is no doubt that in our systems we are getting more services out of our facilities. That has put a pressure on them. No one has denied that. I have not denied that publicly, nor any of my colleagues. When you have an epidemic as we suffered from this year, it is going to put difficult strain.

As the member well knows, within our Winnipeg hospital system we had nearly 300-some of our acute care beds, Madam Speaker, that were being used as transitional or holding beds with occupants who were waiting for personal care home placement. Yesterday I think the recognition of our efforts in dealing with the Misericordia that will add some 280 brand-new beds to our system will work to alleviate that particular difficulty. With respect to our commitment of capital, I think the member should wait for the budget later on this morning.

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, I find it rather questionable that the Minister of Health, on the one hand, would leak budget information and then caution us not to use budget information in this Chamber.

I would ask the Premier now: is his Minister of Health now saying that he has breached cabinet confidentiality and budget confidentiality by leaking that information yesterday? Secondly, will the Premier take responsibility for his own broken promise of freezing capital after the election in 1995?

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, the member for Concordia may not be aware of this--I would not expect him to--but our negotiations with the Misericordia, the sisters of Misericordia, with His Grace Archbishop Wall, began last fall when Mr. Neil Fast, who joins us in the gallery, is chair of the Winnipeg Hospital Authority, and I met with them to begin that process. We have had detailed negotiations. It was only on Wednesday night of this week that the board of Misericordia made their decision. If they had made that decision a month ago, we would have announced it a month ago.

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In fairness, Madam Speaker, once the board had made that decision, it was paramount that they advise their staff, and so consequently they advised their staff. The financial details related to this will be unveiled in due course, but we believe very strongly that once they made their decision they had an obligation to inform their staff, and I would hope members opposite would appreciate that point.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, again the Minister of Health has completely contradicted himself. You know, it belies the government's so-called consultations and so-called move towards consulting with the public.

Madam Speaker, if the decision was made on Wednesday night and it is in today's budget, is the Minister of Health saying that they waited till they changed the budget after the Wednesday night decision to put it in the budget, or is the minister saying in fact what we know to be true, they made the decision a long time ago? We announced it two weeks ago. They denied it publicly. Now the Minister of Health is saying he completely does not listen to what they say anyway because it is in the budget.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, first of all, as the members well know, projects within budgets or global amounts of money, there are specifics that are set, but the fundamental issue that the Misericordia, a board of directors, had to deal with was whether or not they were prepared to accept a fundamental change in their role. We have been negotiating with them over a number of months, and the matter was brought to conclusion Wednesday night.

Believe me, Madam Speaker, if the matter could have been brought to conclusion a month ago, I more than anyone else would have liked to have seen that announcement in their role change. There are still many, many details to be worked out on the finances of this project, the specifics, et cetera. We intend to keep staff informed, as the Misericordia board wishes to do, as we advance on this project. But the announcement or the comments that the member for Kildonan refers to was I believe a couple of weeks ago he went out and announced that their emergency ward would be closing on April 1, which was not the case. He frightened the citizens of Winnipeg and that is not responsible.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of Health how in the midst of a crisis in the Winnipeg health care system--something the Premier (Mr. Filmon) does not acknowledge nor the Minister of Health, but every Manitoban and every Winnipegger knows about the crisis--how they justify the removal of 175 acute care beds from the health care system, the closure of an emergency ward that right now is sometimes occupied 24 hours because ambulances are being diverted from other hospitals and the removal of the ER staff when we are in the midst of the worst health care crisis brought on by 10 years of disgusting Filmon management of the health care system.

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, my friend Clay Serby, who is the New Democratic Party Minister of Health in Saskatchewan, when I chat with him, would probably say that the member for Kildonan resembles his critic in putting forward statements that are not accurate or are not descriptive of the realities of health care.

Madam Speaker, we have not denied in any way that over the last number of weeks our system has been pushed, and in some cases to the crisis point, because of the influx of patients, but nowhere in yesterday's commentary was any reference made, nor I say publicly today is it the intention to close any of those facilities tomorrow or next week. This is a long-term plan. It involves a lot of new construction. A lot of work must be done with the staff to ensure that no one loses their job, because we need ultimately all of those people who work at the Misericordia somewhere in the system. It is going to take a great deal of effort with staff, et cetera, with unions who are involved. It is going to be something that takes a long period of time, and so it is not going to happen overnight, nor remove those facilities from our hospital system tomorrow.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Kildonan, with a final supplementary question.

Mr. Chomiak: We do not believe this government on health care. How can the Minister of Health expect us to believe his comments today when this Premier (Mr. Filmon) and this government promised hundreds of personal care home beds in 1995 and then promptly cancelled them after the election, and now says today, well, we have a problem in our health care system because we should have personal care home beds, but we do not have them--when this government promised them, then cancelled them and is now saying: we promise you we are going to do it again? How can they test their credibility any further?

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, I do not ask members opposite to believe us. I would not expect them to do that, but I would ask them--

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

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Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable Minister of Health, to complete his response.

Mr. Praznik: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would ask them to believe some of their fellow New Democrats, because if their federal leader is correct, she identified very clearly that every province in Canada has undergone severe financial difficulties and hardships because of federal spending. She, in fact, blames many of our problems in our system on the current lack of federal funding today.

You can even look closer, to the member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale), because when you talk about changes in beds, I believe he said to this Legislature on September 18, 1996, and I quote: "Now, we could agree that as the outpatient surgery increased and as the ability of our health care system to provide resources in a way that does not require as long hospital stays, as those abilities increase, then our need for more acute care beds does decrease."

Here I am agreeing with the honourable colleague, et cetera, and that is what has been happening, Madam Speaker, throughout the system.

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): I, too, have a question for the Minister of Health. This government has allowed the Brandon General Hospital physical plant to become run-down and antiquated. In fact, it is the only large hospital in Manitoba not to have been modernized. It has many serious deficiencies, ranging from a substandard operating room to a laboratory that is totally undersized. The previous minister announced construction would proceed at least on two occasions, and once he unveiled a beautiful big model at a major news conference that it was going ahead. Now this was years ago, and we are still waiting.

My question to the minister is: why is he now putting obstacles in the path of the modernization of this important hospital in the Westman area by requiring the board and the community to raise millions of dollars, almost insuperable obstacle to proceeding forthwith with the modernization of that plant? It is just unacceptable, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, if I recall correctly from budget announcements that were made last year and announcements by our Treasury Board that when we removed the freeze and announced the new capital program last year, we in fact identified Brandon as one of those projects, and I believe work is underway now. The new regional health authority, I understand, has taken over responsibility for Brandon General Hospital, and they are completing their work in assessing their physical needs. The member may well know that there are also, I believe, 25 new psychiatric beds under construction now in Brandon, and I hope to be joined by my colleague the member for Brandon West (Mr. McCrae) and the Premier (Mr. Filmon) sometime this spring to open those new beds.

Mr. Leonard Evans: Will the minister take it upon himself to look at the huge file on the modernization of the Brandon General Hospital and the many reports and the much correspondence that has gone on in this matter? You know, he talks about study now--there have been studies--this is only two--they are this high, Madam Speaker. This correspondence from the board expressing exasperation, and I quote: Solutions are long overdue and absolutely necessary. Time-expired facilities cannot continue to deteriorate, mechanical systems routinely require expensive retrofit, repair building and system codes in most instances do not reflect current standards, et cetera. This is September 21, 1993, and the minister continues to drag his feet. When are they going to fulfill a promise? We have broken promises--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, as I said to the member for Brandon East, if I remember correctly when we announced last year a major commitment for reworking at the Health Sciences Centre, I believe Boundary Trails hospital, Brandon, some major retrofit to Brandon General Hospital was included, and so the authorities to do that are now in place, and the work is being done between the Department of Health, our Capital Branch, as well as the Brandon Regional Health Authority on completing and finalizing the plans for that work to take place. So the member, I hope, would be aware that that was discussed and decided upon last year and now moves into that process to finalize and into construction.

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Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Brandon East, with a final supplementary question.

Mr. Leonard Evans: To the people of Westman, Madam Speaker, this sounds like a broken record, because this is all we have heard for years and years and years.

My question to the minister is: is the minister aware of the exasperation and pure frustration in the Westman community caused by this on-again, off-again approach and the unfair requirement to raise millions of dollars before any major modernization can take place, a requirement that was not made of other major renovations in this province? So there is discrimination against the Brandon General Hospital.

Mr. Praznik: First of all, Madam Speaker, factual information is very important. The people of Brandon should recall from last year in our program and discussions that project will proceed with respect to our new capital program in a community contribution. All new and major significant projects in the province, including this project with the Misericordia, including Health Sciences Centre, will be subject to the community contribution, and that contribution has, I think, played a very significant role in determining the exact needs that communities have, because they have a financial stake in the project. Let us not forget that our neighbours in New Democratic Party Saskatchewan also have, I believe, a community contribution; Ontario has one as well that was in place under the New Democrats. If memory serves me correctly, their contribution is more significant than ours.

Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): Madam Speaker, I do not think there is any doubt anywhere in this province, except perhaps in those benches, that there is a critical situation in our health care system. When I heard the Minister of Health say earlier there would not be a problem if it were not for the influx of patients, I think we all know how serious that difficulty is. But, you know, northern Manitoba has been particularly hard hit by hospital cuts, by physician shortages. What demonstrated that was when recently at least three people had to be medi-vac'd to Winnipeg to have appendicitis operations. I know the minister has been in touch with the family, one Judy Benner, whose daughter--it took eight hours before she was able to get that operation.

I want to ask a very simple question to the minister since we still do not have a surgeon. Apparently there is one underway. Why did the Department of Health not authorize an on-call physician in Thompson? We have a surgeon available in the community. Why did they not provide the funding to make sure those people did not have to be medi-vac'd to Winnipeg for appendicitis operations?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I was not aware that that particular request had been made. I will certainly endeavour to find out if that in fact happened between the regional health authority and the finance or the operations people in our Ministry of Health, but I can tell the member he has identified very correctly a shortage of physicians that we have had in the province of Manitoba.

I asked my legislative assistant, the member for Turtle Mountain (Mr. Tweed), to undertake a review and action on a number of fields in which we can attract and retain physicians. I am pleased to report that we have quite a number, somewhere between 40 and 50 doctors from out of province, who are having their credentials checked at the current time and have been matched with regional health authorities to fill many of those vacancies. One of the slow parts of the process has been dealing with the Department of Immigration, which is a federal department.

Mr. Ashton: Will the minister recognize that this is leading to a huge increase in the cost of patient transportation medivacs and answer the question why the department did not authorize having an on-call surgeon in Thompson? We have a surgeon who is a general practitioner--why they were not willing to put the money in there to make sure that people in Thompson did not have to be medi-vac'd to Winnipeg for that surgical procedure?

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, I will endeavour to have my department, I would like to know myself what the circumstances were if in fact that decision was put to us. I know the member for Thompson did not raise this with me until this particular moment. If he did, I apologize. I do not recall him raising it with me directly, but if he has by way of letter, I will endeavour to check that out.

Madam Speaker, this department and this government, when we have seen need that we had to fill, we have acted to do that. We have funded additional beds; we have funded additional doctors. I can assure the member that we try to do whatever we can to fill those needs. If it is a matter of recruiting physicians, particularly surgeons, that has not been as easy a task. We cannot force people to come and service a particular community, but because of the efforts of my colleague and others, we have managed to have a significant influx of new physicians for this province that are in the process of being contacted by the Department of Immigration.

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Mr. Ashton: Madam Speaker, in fact, as soon as I was made aware of this by the mother, I contacted the minister's office, made sure they had all the information. She has been in touch with the minister's office.

I want to ask as a final question, Madam Speaker, when the minister will recognize the fact that we are spending as much money in patient transportation as we would save by transferring some of those funds into the kinds of incentives and the kind of recruiting that is necessary to put physicians into rural and northern Manitoba. When will he recognize the cost savings of having those physicians and put those incentives in place?

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, there is no debate here over that point. I do not take issue with the member for Thompson. He is very right. I think any reasonable person looking at it recognizes that there are some times, if you do not have a physician, it is a lot more expensive to move the patient than have the physician. We have never denied otherwise, and we have full agreement with the member. It is a matter of being able to properly staff.

I would also acknowledge to the member that some of the issues of incentives for practice in northern areas are not in place. That is part of what we intend to negotiate in our next round of bargaining with the Manitoba Medical Association, and our efforts to put a new agreement in for emergency services in rural Manitoba last spring was one step towards increasing that incentive. So we agree I think on the issue and the problem, and we are endeavouring to solve it as best one can, but there are other parties like the MMA that one has to deal with in these matters and they are part of larger bargaining.

Mr. Neil Gaudry (St. Boniface): Madam Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Health. Can the minister indicate what is being done to rectify the working conditions? I have had several calls and several letters which I will be forwarding to the minister in regard to the conditions at the St. Boniface Hospital with the lack of quality care they mentioned in their letters and in the emergency room.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Some of the issues that the member refers to have been brought to my attention. One of the difficulties that we currently face is the Winnipeg Hospital Authority--and again Mr. Fast joins us in the gallery today, Madam Speaker. One of the difficulties, of course, is the WHA is moving towards becoming the operational authority on the 1st of April of this year. I would hope that the board of directors of the St. Boniface General Hospital will want to co-operate fully with the Winnipeg Hospital Authority to be able to ensure that we are able to deal with those shortcomings, some of which he has identified. We obviously do not run the operation of that facility today. That is the responsibility of its board of--[interjection] Well, the members opposite laugh, but I will tell you, it is a very important issue to the board of directors of that facility. So I would hope that the co-operation is there to allow the Winnipeg Hospital Authority to deal with those matters after the 1st of April.

Mr. Neil Gaudry (St. Boniface): To the same minister. My question is in regard to the agreement with the Manitoba doctors, and also, what is he doing with the shortages of doctors in the rural areas?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, one of those issues with respect to physicians was a new agreement with the emergency doctors of Winnipeg, both in our community hospitals who had a collective bargaining situation and those in the tertiary hospitals who operate as contractors. We worked very hard over the summer and into the fall and were able to reach an agreement that I think has more than stabilized that particular situation. There are others that have to be addressed in this next particular round of bargaining.

I can tell the member one of the initiatives was a recruitment of foreign physicians that has resulted in 40-plus doctors having their credentials checked by the college, many of which are now in the process of moving through Immigration. We have also dealt with the university to make more resident or more graduate positions open for two to three years to be in rural and northern Manitoba before they have declared their specialty.

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Mr. Neil Gaudry (St. Boniface): Ma question supplémentaire est pour le Premier ministre. Est-ce que le Premier ministre pourrait indiquer la date à laquelle il déposera en cette chambre le rapport de Juge Chartier sur les services en français?

[Translation]

My supplementary question is for the First Minister. Could the First Minister indicate the date on which he will table in this House the report of Judge Chartier on French services?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, I apologize for perhaps my lack of understanding of the question, but if it is as I believe it is with regard to the survey of French language services within various departments of government--

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Boniface, to repeat his question.

Mr. Gaudry: When will the report from Honourable Judge Chartier be brought into the Legislature?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister responsible for French Language Services): Madam Speaker, having two responsibilities in this House--Judge Chartier is currently completing his report. We would hope that we would have the opportunity to receive it and study it, but ultimately it will be brought to this Legislature. I do not control the period over which he will report, but I know he is attempting to bring a timely report for the benefit of the government, the Legislature and the people of the province of Manitoba. I thank the member for his question.

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Madam Speaker, to the Minister of Health. Last night I received a call at home from a very worried 76-year-old constituent who developed breathing problems over the last four weeks. Two weeks ago she was diagnosed with a faulty heart valve, and before anything can be done she needs an echocardiogram. She is told she cannot get it until August 27.

My question to the minister is: could the minister explain why this government has supported this kind of life-threatening delay and--or will he, with over half-a-billion dollars in savings, gross incompetence and broken promises, still try to blame this on Paul Martin or, for goodness' sake, Howard Pawley?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I find it somewhat interesting that members of the provincial New Democratic Party would so distance themselves from their federal leader, because their federal leader after the budget identified what New Democratic Party Health ministers across the country have also identified--is a very significant reduction in support by the national government for our medicare system and some $200 million-plus a year in the case of our province. That has certainly added to the whole strain placed on our system. To deny it would not be accurate and I think certainly undermines his support for the federal leader of the New Democratic Party.

I will endeavour, if the member has not already provided the specifics to my office, to inquire as to exactly what the situation is with this particular individual.

Mr. Mackintosh: Madam Speaker, my supplementary to the minister is: when will this government and this minister face up to their responsibility for the gross mismanagement in the health care system in Manitoba and stop blaming it on the federal government as the minister again has just done once more? Shame, I say.

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, it absolutely amazes us on this side of the House; the critic for the federal New Democratic Party is the former member for his constituency for St. Johns who sat in this House, and federal New Democrats, I think to their credit, have fully recognized the effect of federal withdrawals on the medicare system across this country. We have accepted our responsibility by making up those losses, those reductions of funding as best we can from all our other sources. Is it perfect? No. No one has ever said that. Are there strains on the system? Absolutely. Would we have liked additional support from the national government in their federal budget? You bet we would have, but it was not forthcoming. At least the federal New Democratic Party and the former member for St. Johns recognized that reality. It is regrettable that Ms. Wasylycia-Leis's replacement does not have the same foresight.

Mr. Mackintosh: I asked the minister what is this government, not some other government, what is this government with over half-a-billion dollars in savings going to do for my constituent who has to wait half a year for an echocardiogram? What will he do?

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, in the context of those reductions in our support from the federal government, in having to find other dollars to put into health care which we hope will continue--one will have to wait for the budget later today--but I can tell members that one of the things that we have found is the way in which the system by its nature has operated with its very diffuse system of governance and organization. Wherever we have managed to bring down waiting lists--and we will continue to do that--it is because we have been able to improve the way we organize and use resources, and Mr. Neil Fast who joins us today has been very much part of that.

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Madam Speaker, people from across the province have been suffering unnecessarily because of the lack of leadership on the part of this government. A constituent of mine, Ken Gardner, who suffered a heart attack recently requires triple by-pass. He was scheduled for surgery, then had it cancelled and then was rescheduled. He came all the way to Winnipeg and then found out that it was cancelled. This was in December. It is March. He still has had no surgery.

When is this minister going to recognize the devastation that the policies of this government have caused the people across the province, and when is he going to indicate that this is unacceptable and he will correct this situation?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, with respect to cardiac surgery, I am not sure if the member has provided details of that case. I know this is a situation that does happen from time to time. We have all had constituents raise with us people who are waiting for by-pass surgery. The reality of the situation is such that the physicians involved set the priority list as to who will receive surgery, and they make the decisions based on the relative need or urgency of cases. They try to deal with people who can wait longer, but if an emergency does arise, surgery may in fact be bumped to allow someone in greater need to have that time slot. That has been the case throughout, I believe, the surgery program in the province of Manitoba.

I am not aware of any cancellation of surgery slots because of budgets. I am not aware every day of what happens in the scheduling of surgery, but I can tell the member that these kinds of things happen because of the priorities that doctors make, and rightly so, on the urgency of particular cases. It has always been that way, and it is likely always to be that way to one degree or another.

Ms. Wowchuk: Madam Speaker, does the minister understand what kind of burden this puts on a family that is now down to one pay cheque and having to pay the costs of driving to Winnipeg, costs of paying hotels, along with the emotional stress of having to wait for surgery? Is the minister saying that we have to call his office for every one of these incidents? Why do they not address all of them?

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.

Mr. Praznik: No, Madam Speaker. People should not be contacting my office because it should not be a matter of the minister's decision who gets heart surgery. I would not want to have that responsibility. The physicians who manage the program make their assessment on the needs of their patients. They operate their surgery slates in two facilities in this province. They make their decisions on the particular needs of individual patients. We have all as MLAs from time to time, I am sure, had people who have come to us who have been scheduled for heart surgery and had it cancelled because someone with greater need was scheduled for that particular spot. That is something no Minister of Health nor government can control.

Madam Speaker, my reference to my office was simply that the member may have provided this information because from time to time we have these inquiries, but ultimately those physicians make the decisions, as they should.

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Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): The Addictions Foundation tells us that drug use by youth in Manitoba is up 12 percent under this government since 1993, yet Manitoba has no adolescent residential addictions treatment centre, and Manitoba youth are bumped off the list when they are waiting to go to Saskatchewan or the United States for this type of treatment.

In December '97, the Minister of Health made an announcement to meet this growing need. I want to ask the Minister of Health: is this another health care facility that is just a promise that he has no plans for, no budget for, no beds committed to, and will this facility be built before the next election?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I would ask the member to please wait for other announcements and comments that will be made by colleagues over the course of budgets and Estimates.

Ms. Cerilli: Madam Speaker, what does the minister have to say now to a woman in my constituency whose son has run away because he has given up on getting treatment after being bumped off the waiting list to go to Saskatchewan a number of times?

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, I would say the member should indicate that this particular government is very well aware of this issue and is working to find a way of expanding that service. She may also ask why in the history of the province this has not happened before either. So we continue to work towards that, and the member should wait somewhat before she speaks to her constituent.

Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): My question is for the Minister of Health. This government's record on aboriginal health is absolutely abysmal. In the Parklands, the Waterhen community has put forth a good proposal to build a nursing station in their community to give better service to its people and also to create some savings in health care. I wonder if this minister would commit today to some funding dollars for that proposal which would help the people in the Parklands area.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the member has flagged an issue that I think has been of great concern to Health ministers across the country in provinces that have significant aboriginal populations because, as we look at our resources, we find that Mr. Rock, despite his comments as federal minister, a minister who has responsibility for the delivery of a certain level of health care on First Nations communities, has done very little actually to expand that and even bring it up to the standards of neighbouring communities. That is an issue that we continually wish to press home with him.

On the provincial side, we have put significant dollars into an aboriginal health and wellness centre located here to service our aboriginal community in the core area of Winnipeg. With respect to the specific project in his constituency, I think the member is aware that the process for dealing with these types of capital and funding requests is through the regional health authority. I believe, if it is the project I am thinking of, I am aware of some of the details of that particular project, and I have always been an advocate for expanding services outside of the centres appropriately to ensure delivery closer to home. It is certainly a worthy project, if it is the one I am thinking of.

Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): Madam Speaker, how can this minister complain about federal cuts when he turns and cuts the local authorities in health care at the same time?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, last year, as the member knows, when we created the rural regional health authorities, we did give some targets that required reductions, by and large to force in the system the savings that come from combining services, administration, et cetera. I can tell you that any of those dollars saved have been reinvested in health care in other areas that provide those services.

I should tell him, as well, that even when one has budgets, there are areas within that health budget line--home care being one, Pharmacare being another--although we budget, we always meet the need that is there. We have not reduced, ultimately, funding to those areas, but we continue to meet the need even if in fact those lines have been over budget.

Madam Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.