Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): My question is to the Minister of Natural Resources. Mr. Deputy Speaker, we have a copy of the map that we received last Monday, and, of course, the map that has been updated and circulated over this last weekend with some dramatic changes obviously due to the water flow and some dramatic changes in terms of the potential overflow area that has been dealt with with the construction of the so-called Z-dike or Brunkild dike.

I would like to know from the government, first of all, what is the status of that very, very important dike; and secondly, how could we have a situation where heaven and earth and all machinery in Manitoba must be moved to build this dike, because a week ago we did not know that the water would go ahead northeast into that area and create this very, very tremendous challenge for all of us.

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Natural Resources): Mr. Deputy Speaker, first of all, I believe the first update that the Leader of the Opposition is referring to is the area of inundation within the valley. He will note that most of the predicted elevations are very much within the predictions of the Department of Natural Resources and the Water Resources branch. What we have seen, however, is at these levels the waters begin to spread and form Lake Morris, which is very wide and which has some very unpredictable landscape in terms of the volumes that are in place as it comes across the border. In fact, the predictions of the elevations have remained stable, but there are other influences--timing and, of course, the sheer volume from the entire region where that last storm event went through--that have given some volumes of water that have reached the outside edge of the predictions.

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Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): First of all, I hear from media reports that Emerson is doing very, very well, and of course we applaud the people in that community and hope that they continue to do well against the crest and wind conditions of today.

On April 26, the media release from the Department of Natural Resources and EMO stated that the floodway will be operated to keep the remainder of the city at 24.5 feet at James Street. Over the weekend, again we heard that the flow could be as high as 25 feet at the James Street pumping station.

Will it be the policy or does the government have the flexibility and capability of operating the floodway beyond the 60 percent capacity to keep the commitment to the 24.5 feet at James Street as articulated in the press release of April 26 at 3 p.m.?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Natural Resources): Yes, that is the intention. The elevation was raised slightly in order to provide some additional flexibility in operation of the gate, but of course that assumes that we do not get a backwash in the La Salle, but everything going according to predictions, the 25 feet at James Street is in fact achievable.

Mr. Doer: My question was dealing with if the floodway will be operated to keep the remainder of the city at 24.5 pursuant to the press release of April 26.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): I have a further question to the minister.

Last week, on Wednesday I believe, we asked the question to the government about the predictions in Selkirk, and we were hearing from people in the local community--in fact, the member for Selkirk (Mr. Dewar) raised the question to the minister that in fact Selkirk would be two feet over last year's flood heights at the crest. That information was taken from the minister, and then again the minister confirmed that it would be at the same levels as last year. The media is now reporting that Selkirk will be two feet higher than last year.

Can the minister, because it is not in any of the press releases over the weekend, clarify the situation at Selkirk? Is it going to be two feet over last year's projected now, and what are the impacts on the Selkirk community?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Natural Resources): Mr. Deputy Speaker, when the question was originally asked, recall that the water had dropped about a foot and a half at Selkirk at that time. I did not incorporate that into my answer, and I think that accounts for the fact that we still intend to see it two feet higher than it was at that juncture easily. The predictions that the department is still making for the water levels at Selkirk is that forecasted peak of 727 to 728. Last year's high level was 727.5, so it is still very close to last year's maximum levels. In fact, and perhaps I should be very cautious about putting this information on the record, and I will couch it in that context, some of the ice-jam elevations that were created last year probably exceeded that, but they were not recorded for the purposes of forecasting. I believe that these numbers are correct.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Mr. Deputy Speaker, we are quite aware that the Department of Health is working at full tilt in order to deal with this emergency situation. We are pleased to see that there have been 10 emergency medical units established to deal with the crisis.

There are numerous rumours and concerns that are emanating in the community that range from particular institutions that may be at risk, the degree they may be at risk and the extent that certain procedures are being cancelled or not cancelled. I am sure the information is being communicated directly to those affected.

I am wondering if there is a procedure that the minister can provide us with in order to provide us and the public generally with an update on a regular basis as to what is happening at the major institutions in terms of informing the public as to what the developments are.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): I appreciate very much the concern and question from the member for Kildonan. With respect to flow of information, any updates from Manitoba Health are being included in the regular EMO briefing material that comes out from the province. With respect to city facilities, some of them have issued press releases. St. Boniface, I believe, issued one today to ensure that its community has the detailed information on a first-hand basis.

To date, I am pleased to say in all of the steps that have been taken by facilities throughout the upper Red River Valley and in Winnipeg, where we have evacuated the St. Norbert personal care home, we have done so well in advance of any risk, and all has gone well and successfully for the care of those people. The communication we appreciate, and the vehicle is that regular EMO report.

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Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Mr. Deputy Speaker, we have heard reports that emergencies have been diverted from Health Sciences Centre because of the backflow in terms of diversions from St. Boniface Hospital. I am wondering if the Department of Health is considering something similar to that which occurred during the emergency room crisis of a year and a half ago, if perhaps alerting the public in general on an ongoing basis as to which emergency rooms are open and which are not, because while we recognize that the transporters, the ambulance services are aware of that, the general public may not be aware of that. It may assist the public in terms of access in particular institutions.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Mr. Deputy Speaker, absolutely. I think currently the only emergency room in the city that has been reducing its operation, and I believe that is quoted in the press release from St. Boniface today, where they are only taking--they are not diverting any ambulance that arrives, but they are not functioning on their emergency system. If, as this develops--we are in regular contact with the CEOs of the facilities. My deputy minister, Mr. DeCock, spoke with them this morning in a conference call, and should the need arise to have a greater control mechanism for directing use of emergency facilities, we will look at an alternative communication vehicle to ensure that the citizens of Winnipeg are aware of those changes. I appreciate his advice on this matter.

Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): Mr. Deputy Speaker, one month to four weeks will be a long time for many Manitobans to be evacuated from their homes and communities, especially if they are staying in arenas or other mass accommodation. We realize there is a wide variety of different accommodations being made available, including many Manitobans opening their homes to evacuees.

My question is for the Minister of Housing or the Minister responsible for the Emergency Measures Organization. I want to ask how many of the vacant Manitoba Housing Authority properties are being made available for flood evacuees and if this is part of Manitoba's response to the flood crisis.

Hon. Jack Reimer (Minister of Housing): Yes, indeed, we have made instructions to our department to make every effort to try to accommodate any people that are looking for resettlement because of the flooding. We have moved people out of some of our places in areas that have been affected, as has been mentioned before, in Emerson, Dominion City, La Broquerie, Letellier, Morris, St. Jean Baptiste, Ste. Agathe, St. Adolphe. We are in the process of moving people out of Niverville, Ile des Chênes and La Salle. We have moved people to Winkler, Altona, Morden, and we have also indicated that units here in Winnipeg, if they are wanting to be utilized, we can make those units available also.

Ms. Cerilli: I am wanting the minister to clarify then if there are approximately 13,000 Manitoba Housing Authority properties in the province. The minister himself has often said there is approximately a 12 percent vacancy. That would leave approximately 1,500 units available. I realize we would want to use the ones that are closer to southern Manitoba, so I am wanting to see if the minister has any more detailed information of the numbers of units that are being made available to evacuated Manitobans.

Mr. Reimer: As needs are dictated and as the water is moving north, naturally it is forcing people to relocate. We are filling up or trying to fill the units as the need arises and as the requirements come in. As to the exact numbers of people that have been relocated into our units, I would have to get a hold of the department to get a definitive number, but I can only say the number that I could give today may be different tomorrow because of the fact that we are trying to utilize these as the need arises.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Radisson, with her final supplementary question.

Ms. Cerilli: I would ask the minister to clarify his previous answer. He left the impression that it is only residents who are being evacuated from public housing in those communities that he mentioned that are being relocated in Manitoba Housing Authority properties, or are Manitoba Housing Authority properties being made available to any Manitobans who are evacuees, particularly if they have larger families so that they may stay together in a private unit.

Mr. Reimer: Our primary function in moving people out of our Manitoba Housing units is to try to relocate them back into our public housing units. The vacancies that would come available would be above and beyond that, but our primary function is to try to serve the people that are being forced to relocate because of the flood out of public housing. We would try to move them into vacancies first into our public housing in other areas hopefully close to where they are living.

Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St. James): Mr. Deputy Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Education. The minister knows that last year the NDP caucus raised the issue of parents and students being charged user fees for registration in junior, senior high schools, costs of materials, busing, lunch supervision, summer school and field trips. Now we have reports from Assiniboine South School Division which is charging students to cover teachers' salaries.

Will the minister tell Manitobans whether her department has approved the practice of charging students for the costs of substitute teachers?

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Mr. Deputy Speaker, there always have been, throughout time, fees charged to students for student fees in high schools, for field trip fees, for a number of other fees, for gym fees, for band fees, et cetera. We have noticed in the last decade or so changes coming about in the system. Collective agreements are changing. There are opportunities now for teachers in many divisions to get lunch hours free from supervision, for example, because of the collective agreement. That then involves a cost the school division has to pick up. Many divisions now, teachers, when they have extracurricular activities, get instructional days off for every day, for every so many hours put in for extracurricular activities.

So there are a number of things like that that are resulting in increased costs that never used to be in the system. Aside from locker fees and those kinds of fees, school divisions are now having to choose to charge lunch fees, for example, and perhaps now to cover other costs that I am unaware of. This I am not aware of, what the member has raised.

Ms. Mihychuk: Mr. Deputy Speaker, my second question to the minister: Is the minister willing to recognize that, according to The Education Administration Act, she is responsible for the supervision, control and direction of all public schools and all other schools pursuant to the act, and will she immediately take action so that students are not paying the salaries of teachers?

Mrs. McIntosh: I am not aware of students paying teachers' salaries directly. All people pay teachers' salaries indirectly, of course, through taxation except in independent schools where there is a user fee. The parents pay for that.

I do indicate that school divisions have local autonomy to decide whether or not they need to choose a user fee for traditional things that have always had user fees or for nontraditional things that have come into being as a result of teachers being excused from some of their former duties because of collective agreements. School divisions have that autonomy to charge lunch fees, to charge fees for extracurricula activities, because teachers are now getting compensatory time off for doing extracurricula activities. Those, I think, have to be left to the local autonomy which school divisions have long fought to maintain.

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Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for St. James, with her final supplementary question.

Ms. Mihychuk: Mr. Deputy Speaker, will the Minister of Education then contact the parent that has raised the issue, Gerry Honish from Assiniboine South? Is her department aware of the recent court decision in British Columbia banning student fees for basic education costs, and are they ready for a lawsuit here in Manitoba?

Mrs. McIntosh: In British Columbia, the situation there is different from the situation here. I made reference the other day to the Minister of Education in British Columbia telling the two Vancouver boards that have just had to lay off some 400-and-some-odd teachers due to decreased funding from the provincial government. When the parents protested, he said: It is tough; you cannot get everything you want.

That is not the attitude we are taking. We have steadily increased funding to public schools, $115 million more than when we took office. We have put in a number of initiatives in terms of extra funding for busing in urban centres where the students who live a kilometre and a half from a public transit stop can now be funded if they are in the senior grades, a whole series of initiatives that have put money over and above that $115-million increase.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): My question is for the Minister responsible for the Environment. There is a great deal of concern in terms of the contamination of water that is consumed, whether it is by drinking or bathing or whatever it might be. Fortunately, for us in Winnipeg, we receive our water through Shoal Lake.

The question that I have of the Minister of Environment is: To what degree does he anticipate that contamination of water is going to pose a problem in rural Manitoba?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Environment): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I thank the honourable member for that extremely important question at a time of environmental challenge such as during the time of a flood. The contamination of water supplies is of paramount concern and importance. With respect to water supplies affected by contaminated flood waters, the Environment department will be extremely active after the worst of the flood, the worst of the immediate flood circumstances.

Right now Environment personnel are working with the other departments and Emergency Measures to help protect life and limb and property and all the while knowing that environmental concerns will become fairly significant at the end of all of this. So monitoring of all the water used for domestic purposes will become a very, very important responsibility of Environment department officials.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Can the Minister of Environment assure the House that additional resources would in fact be given so that after the four weeks, after people are allowed to start to go back to their houses, we will not have any sort of an outbreak due to contaminated waters, that whatever the resources necessary in order to ensure that the drinking water in particular is safe for Manitobans returning will in fact be done?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Environment): It is essential that Health department, Environment department and resource department personnel work very closely together and in a co-ordinated way to ensure the highest level of public safety that is possible, and that is exactly what has been and will be happening in the aftermath of the flood, and resource requirements will be addressed as they are required to make sure appropriate monitoring is done.

The Health department has already and will continue to make sure the public is bulletined and that people are warned about the dangers associated with contamination which unfortunately goes along with flooding. I can say to the honourable member that we have had some early monitoring done and levels are surprisingly, shall I say, positive even at this particular stage, but with water moving as it is, a test taken at a given location now may not be valid 10 minutes from now because of volumes of water passing through.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Inkster, with his final supplementary question.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Given that the government did privatize the water testing branch through the Department of Health, I understand that currently bacterial testing in Manitoba is done free, but maybe if the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson) in particular could confirm that enviro testing is waiting currently for approval from Treasury Board to now charge a fee for this particular service.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Mr. Deputy Speaker, appreciating the need to test wells in flood-affected areas, we are currently working on arrangements with Treasury Board to ensure that those are provided free of charge to needy Manitobans who will find themselves in that situation.

Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): Last Tuesday when the Children's Advocate presented his annual report to a committee of this Legislature, he lamented that he had no power to enforce compliance with his recommendations, leaving children often as the fall guys. Legislation without teeth and responsibility without power are hallmarks of this government and apparently the models the Minister of Health intends for his health privacy act.

I would like to ask the minister, again, to break the mold, to circulate his draft legislation as a white paper and so recognize that all Manitobans are stakeholders with regard to our health records.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Of course all Manitobans are. This legislation was developed in fact by representatives of a host of stakeholder associations and groups who deal with this type of legislation every day, who come to that kind of committee wanting to ensure that there is proper protection for whether it be their clients, in the case of nurses, doctors or the patients, or public interest as many of those groups represent. They have worked long and hard developing some principles around which legislation has been drafted.

I had personally attended a briefing with them last week in which we went through many parts of that legislation. There were some further suggestions and issues that they raised that our drafts people are working on. Ultimately this legislation will be introduced here, and the public will have an opportunity to participate and advise us through legislative committee, which is a long-established practice in the province of Manitoba.

Ms. McGifford: Mr. Deputy Speaker, to the same minister.

I would like to ask the minister, particularly in view of the Children's Advocate's strong statements, why he will not take the good advice of his own Premier (Mr. Filmon), who promised us cutting-edge legislation which surely means a commissioner who can, in the words of the Children's Advocate, enforce compliance.

Mr. Praznik: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I think the Premier was right. This is very much cutting-edge, leading-edge legislation. The question with respect to the supervising authority is whatever title one gives that individual, the question is to ensure that they have the tools that they will be comfortable with in order to do the job, that there is proper public accountability. There is a host of views as to how that should happen. In Ottawa, they chose to appoint a privacy commissioner, but that privacy commissioner's roles and powers are very similar to those of an ombudsman. So one should not get caught up in the debate of nomenclature but look around the rules or powers that will be there and, in a practical sense, how those rules and powers have worked in the past in other situations, in similar situations, to resolve issues and ensure protection of the public, and that is in fact what we are examining.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Osborne, with her final supplementary question.

Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): To the same minister: Is it not time to admit that the real reasons that this legislation lacks clout are that his corporate partner, the Royal Bank, prefers the room for maneuvering recommendations, variety of legislation, and this government wants to keep the power to contain damage, and for these reasons the government is willing to risk the confidentiality of our health care records?

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Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Mr. Deputy Speaker, only a New Democrat who likes to put her head in the sand and not look at realities with which one deals would come up with that kind of very silly accusation.

This government is not about to risk the privacy of health records. She belongs to a party that has had the privilege of governing this province for many years, and I do not recall her party ever bringing in the kind of protection of paper records which is also important. So she stands before us in a party which is being somewhat hypocritical.

The second point that I make is that the legislation, the work that is going on, the discussions I had with the group, I think we are on track for very solid legislation. The public of Manitoba will be well protected, and one thing we do not need is this kind of statement. The member seems--because you use the term "bank" that it is somehow bad, but let her remember that the greatest protection of financial security of records has been developed by Canadian banks. There is a wealth of expertise there in developments which she would ignore for ideological reasons.

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I would like to ask the Deputy Premier-- this minister now has had some time to review the details of the agreement he made with ManGlobe, and I am hoping that his memory now is a little better than in the past--could the Deputy Premier now explain why he agreed to a proposal that the project director would receive $240,000 salary and the project manager would receive $120,000 salary? Does he agree that these salaries are excessive?

Hon. James Downey (Deputy Premier): Mr. Deputy Speaker, the numbers that the member has put forward I cannot confirm as being accurate.

Mr. Maloway: Well, I would ask the minister to check his figures and confirm these figures. We would like to know. Did the president of ManGlobe receive $240,000 for Phase 1(a) of the ManGlobe project as indicated in the ManGlobe submission to his department? He has that submission. Yes or no?

Mr. Downey: Mr. Deputy Speaker, as I said, I cannot confirm the salary ranges that the member is bringing to the table. The salary ranges are considerably lower for the individual that he has talked about.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Elmwood, with his final supplementary question.

Mr. Maloway: Then will the Deputy Premier tell us what were the salary figures for these two individuals?

Mr. Downey: Again, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I hope the member would appreciate the fact that this information is within a company that is not fully open for public--because of its competitive nature. However, during the Estimates process, I will be more than prepared to provide as much information as is possible without in any way damaging the operations of the company.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Kildonan, with a new question.

An Honourable Member: Elmwood.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Elmwood, with a new question.

Mr. Maloway: On a new question to the same minister, I would like to ask the minister: Given that these figures come from the submissions that this company gave to his department, why can he not confirm that these were the figures that were the exact salaries for these people? He has their submission. He has had it for two years. He approved it.

Mr. Downey: Mr. Deputy Speaker, it seems strange that the member is coming to the House and asking the questions if he has all the answers that relate to the submission. I mean, I am more than prepared--as I have said previously, the numbers that he has referred to as it relates to salary, I cannot confirm them. The information that I have from the department, they are substantially lower than what he has brought to the House. He also made reference to the fact that there would be 175 people employed. He is the only one that has ever put that number on the table, but it in fact was something like 10 to 20 people, and they are still employing probably 10 to 15 people. Again, I have a hard time finding any accuracy to what the member is bringing to the Legislature at all.

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): My supplementary to the same minister is this: I would like to know when he will publicly release the contract so that we can confirm what the actual figures are. This minister has been hiding this contract for months and months and months. We have asked him many times to release it and he refuses. When will he release it?

Hon. James Downey (Deputy Premier): I do not know. Maybe he would give me a little more idea as to what actual contract he is referring to. When he brings his questions to the House, if he would be a little more precise, it would be helpful. I am trying to co-operate, to help. Again, as I have made reference, the company is carrying out R & D, which the province has participated in. It is a company that does not provide or is not able to provide all the information, because it is somewhat of a competitive nature, but again we will try to comply with the member and give as much information as possible.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Elmwood, with his final supplementary question.

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): Mr. Deputy Speaker, my final supplementary to the same minister is this: Rather than taking more questions as notice, could the minister today tell the House what role Mike Bessey played with Tracey Deleeuw in getting the ManGlobe project through the Economic Development Board and cabinet?

Hon. James Downey (Deputy Premier): The activities of anyone dealing with this particular project were carried out on a normal basis.

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Mr. Deputy Speaker, for about five years plus another year, Linnet Graphics has had a particular understanding and agreement with the Province of Manitoba. My information is that agreement ended on March 31, 1997. I wonder if the Minister of Natural Resources could confirm whether the Linnet agreement has now ended, and what arrangements are in place to supersede that agreement.

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Natural Resources): I learned a long time ago not to entirely trust my memory, but I believe it is correct that the arrangements have ended, and we are looking to tender services.

Mr. Sale: The Province of Manitoba still owns 24 percent of Linnet, unless there has been an agreement for sale which has not been released. Could the minister describe for the House the current state of the relationship between Linnet and the province and whether the province is maintaining that stake or not?

Mr. Cummings: I do not have that information right at my fingertips, but I will be glad to provide it.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Crescentwood, with his final supplementary question.

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Mr. Deputy Speaker, it is difficult to understand the minister would not have that information.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. I would like to remind the honourable member that there is no need for a preamble to his question. I would ask the member to place his question now, please.

Mr. Sale: Would the minister tell the House the current state of the Manitoba land-related information system which was the primary responsibility of the Linnet contract? Has that system now been put in abeyance? If it has not, who is in charge of it?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Natural Resources): I hope the member would appreciate that I have been focusing on a number of other issues in the last short while, and I will be glad to provide him with that information.

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Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): I have a question for the Minister of Health. I have been informed by a Brandon woman who is suffering from osteoporosis that she was advised that she had to wait for two years to have a bone density scan in Winnipeg. As a result, her doctor strongly suggested that she go to Minot, North Dakota, which she did, and paid $90 plus travel expenses. Obviously, this is an unacceptable situation and a serious gap in our health care system.

I ask the minister: Inasmuch as this could be a very important preventative program, why will you not provide more resources to eliminate this two-year waiting list for bone density scans?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): I would concur with the member for Brandon East that that is an unacceptable waiting period. In fact, upon coming into this office, the previous minister--I know the Premier (Mr. Filmon) has had an interest in this issue, and we have discussed ways of improving that. We are working on some of those plans within the department now because it is an unacceptable waiting list. I hope we are going to have some announcements a little later in the year to overcome that waiting list. [interjection]

Mr. Leonard Evans: I think we have the greatest system. We just need the resources to make it work.

A supplementary: Will the minister advise how many hundreds of women, not only in my constituency but across Manitoba, are on the waiting list and are being deprived of a major service that would assist in coping with this particular health problem? How many hundreds of people are waiting?

Mr. Praznik: I do not have, as the member may appreciate, those numbers with me today, but I know when we get into our discussions of Estimates, or at other times, I would be more than pleased to share that with him. I would indicate to him that, yes, we in Canada and certainly in Manitoba do have a wonderful health care system, and one of the great advantages of that system is the ability to direct and make best use of our resources. One of the reasons, in fact, we are in the process of moving into regional health authorities is because that gives us better ability to better utilize resources. I know I could share with him many examples brought to my attention where current resources available within the city of Winnipeg could be better utilized to a greater maximum if we were able to organize those better, so I appreciate his advice and his comments. It is certainly what we are endeavouring to do.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: The time for Oral Question Period has expired.