Mr. Deputy Speaker (Marcel Laurendeau): Order, please. Time for private members' hour, proposed resolutions.

Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I move, seconded by the member for St. Johns (Mr. Mackintosh), that

"WHEREAS the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry found that the justice system has failed Manitoba's aboriginal people on a massive scale; and

"WHEREAS the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry Report released on August 29th, 1991, is the most comprehensive study of the justice system ever done in this country; and

"WHEREAS the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry Report made 306 recommendations and only a tiny fraction of them have been acted upon by the provincial government; and

"WHEREAS the provincial government has repeatedly refused to release its studies and analysis of the recommendations; and

"WHEREAS the provincial government has repeatedly refused to release its studies and analysis of the recommendations; and

"WHEREAS three successive Ministers of Justice have failed to release an action plan for implementing the recommendations of the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry; and

"WHEREAS the Hughes report of November 29, 1996 stated that the recommendations of the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry should be the driving force in bringing forward needed aboriginal initiatives in justice.

"THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba request that the provincial government release all studies and analysis of each of the recommendations of the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry report; and

"BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that this Assembly request that the provincial government immediately consider commencing work with aboriginal organizations to implement the recommendations of the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry; and

"BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that this Assembly request that the Minister of Justice consider releasing an action plan for the provincial government on implementing the recommendations of the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry and to make this action plan a key part of his agenda in 1997."

Motion presented.

Mr. Robinson: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am grateful for the opportunity to speak again on the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry, as many of us in the aboriginal community regard this to be a blueprint for an action plan for, it does not matter what level of government, but at least to begin work on many outstanding issues that aboriginal people have been faced with. We have waited patiently, I believe, speaking as an aboriginal person, since 1991 to see some action taken by any level of government. In this case, we are urging the provincial government to take some action and put together an action plan, together with the other levels of government to begin working on the main recommendations of the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry.

We all know that the AJI was sparked with the killing death of J. J. Harper on the streets of Winnipeg, and also the death of Helen Betty Osborne in 1971. We have made strides in that particular case, Mr. Deputy Speaker, through our own initiative. We had a healing conference at the Ferndale Institution in British Columbia in December and we were able, through the aboriginal way of seeking justice, to be able to get Mr. Johnston to give details about how the murder occurred in 1971. We took great pride in that in the aboriginal community, because it was something that the police authorities were unable to do for many years. We believe that and some other things that had been going on prior to the AJI being released in 1991--the Hollow Water holistic healing program, for example, that has been under the direction of Burma Bushie and others in the Hollow Water community has been a strong program with respect to how sexual offenders and some of the offences that have occurred in our community over the years have been dealt with in a traditional sense. So we are very proud of the people in Hollow Water.

We have at times commended this government as well in working with communities like Hollow Water and also St. Theresa Point in some of the things that they are working on, but there is a lot more to be done. Where we have to begin is dealing with the First Nations communities and aboriginal communities on a government-to-government relationship basis. We heard that in the throne speech very recently, and we have to develop these partnership arrangements. There was an action plan that I was involved with in 1991 after the release of the AJI and that was through the Aboriginal Council of Winnipeg while I was its president, and also together with the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs and Manitoba Metis Federation, the Indigenous Women's Collective, and we developed a plan that was, unfortunately, not embraced by this government. We thought it was a workable plan which would involve to some degree the city government, the Winnipeg City Police and also the federal government and also the RCMP in dealing with some of the outstanding issues. We have to commend the Winnipeg City Police because I believe that they are the group that has taken the AJI seriously and have made some strides in trying to recruit more aboriginal people into the Winnipeg City Police force. We commend the work of the Winnipeg City Police in that regard.

I also realize that there is a federal-provincial pilot project that is happening right now with the MKO communities, nine of them, that is a partnership arrangement. That is something that was strongly emphasized by both Judge Sinclair and now retired Justice Hamilton with respect to a magistrate's program in northern Manitoba. We are very happy about this pilot project which encompasses about $400,000, and we think it is a wise investment in that sort of work that is necessary in those northern Manitoba communities.

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The fly-in sports program as well, which is now known as the Northern Youth Summer Program, is something that I have raised in Question Period here before, and we are glad that this provincial government is working with First Nations communities. Prior to this latest announcement by the minister, of course, this was delivered by a Mochikitahwak program which is an offshoot of the Keewatin Tribal Council in Thompson which represents a number of First Nations communities in northern Manitoba. The correct spelling of that is M-o-c-h-i-k-i-t-a-h-w-a-k, and in the Cree language it means to embrace the moment, to have a good time. That is what that word means in the Cree language. Of course, together with the Manitoba Sports council, now these programs have been amalgamated, and therefore the youth program has been announced which encompasses something like $100,000.

The Hollow Water program which a number of First Nations communities, aboriginal people, throughout Canada and even the United States have viewed as a model and have come to Hollow Water, and there was a national story on the work that is being done by the people at Hollow Water with respect to sexual abuse, for example, a major problem that exists, unfortunately, in many aboriginal communities. We believe that the program has to be funded a little more. Yes, they do receive funding from this government, but with the amount of work they do, with the amount of requests they get, perhaps their funding should be improved.

Allow me to get back to the recommendations of the AJI and the issues that it identified of aboriginal people. It says that it has failed Manitoba's aboriginal people on a massive scale. It has been insensitive and inaccessible and has arrested and imprisoned aboriginal people in grossly disproportionate numbers. Aboriginal people who are arrested are more likely than nonaboriginal people to be denied bail, spend more time in pretrial detention, spend less time at their lawyers and if convicted are likely to be incarcerated. This continues on to this day, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Further, in the forward of the AJI, of course, the commissioners talk about the situation involving aboriginal people and the justice system deteriorating rather than improving, and the reason would seem that aboriginal distance from Manitoba's justice system is simply not a geographical phenomenon but it is also one of a cultural nature. The delivery of justice to aboriginal people in aboriginal communities through the provincial court system is inequitable and inadequate and, again, we flag that because we know it.

(Mr. Peter Dyck, Acting Speaker, in the Chair)

We recall when the AJI was first announced. We had, for example, on the federal side the Honourable Lloyd Axworthy, who at that time was an opposition member of Parliament who embraced it and wanted debate on it at the earliest opportunity, but that was the last we ever heard of that. So we do not want to see the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry, Mr. Acting Speaker, join the Hughes report and the Royal Commission, and I want to talk about that briefly, simply be used as doorstops, and I believe those were the words of the Deputy Premier, that we would not see at that time that the AJI would become a doorstop. We want to see some meaningful development on the AJI.

As recently as February 5, 1996, George Muswagon, the Grand Chief of the MKO, Manitoba Keewatinowi Okemakanak, wrote in a letter to then Justice Minister Vodrey saying that the escalating incidence of crime among aboriginal people is not only distressingly threatening to the aboriginal people themselves, and negative ramifications are contributing to the social and economic fabric of the larger society, and we all can feel that.

Our basic, traditional values are based on a respect of the spirit world, desire for harmony and well-being in the interpersonal relationships, justice and freedom consistent with the principles of collective law. These values have been invalidated by the Status system or the Indian Act, which precludes any aboriginal social perceptive faculty and competency.

The AJI not only spends time talking about the inequities in justice, but it goes back to what aboriginal justice is, the role of peacemakers. The recommendations also include the argument for aboriginal justice systems, and we believe those to be workable on certain matters, that we do not have to wait for long delays in trial that could be dealt with in the community.

For example, in the community of Shamattawa most recently the chief has made it a point that alcohol will not come into the community because of the problems that it causes, and she has made an effort in ensuring that alcohol does not come into the community. The same could be said about solvent abuse and drugs that are coming into communities, and there has been a concerted effort made by First Nations communities, and we commend them for that.

Simply what this resolution calls for then, Mr. Acting Speaker, is that this government begin detailing an action plan that will involve the major aboriginal organizations in this province, including the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs, the Manitoba Metis Federation and others that are interested in this to some degree as well, the Aboriginal Council of Winnipeg, including the women.

We do not believe that there has been enough, and I am sure the other side will get up and talk about the things that they have done but, from the First Nations community and the aboriginal community, there has been really no progress in implementing the recommendations of the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry. As the resolution itself reads, there were 306 recommendations. Over 100 of them relate directly with the Province of Manitoba.

So, Mr. Acting Speaker, I will conclude at that, and I would like to ask the support of all members in embracing this resolution because this certainly gives all of us in this Legislature an opportunity to talk about something meaningful and perhaps give aboriginal people in this province some hope that this government and this Manitoba Legislative Assembly does take their issues seriously. Thank you.

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Acting Speaker, I would like to put a few comments on the record as well in respect to this issue. It is certainly an issue that is an important one to the people of Manitoba and indeed to the specific community, the aboriginal people that this resolution specifically is concerned with. The Aboriginal Justice Inquiry was an extensive study of many, many issues. Indeed, as the resolution indicates, there were over 300 recommendations that were made by the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry, and many of those were good recommendations, recommendations that have served to guide this government in the implementation of a number of programs and policy and legislative directions.

One of the things that is very unfortunate about this specific resolution is that it fails to address a very major issue, and that is while there were 306 resolutions or recommendations made, it I think unfairly indicates that only a few of them have been acted on by the provincial government. One of the things that the resolution fails to recognize is that of the 306 recommendations, more than half of them, or approximately one-half of them, fall exclusively within federal jurisdiction. I think that is a problem that needs to be addressed in addressing this specific situation.

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Our justice system is one where there is a shared responsibility, not just between federal and provincial authorities but indeed municipal authorities. I think for the purposes of the record it is very clear that we have to take cognizance of that fact. While I, as the Attorney General of the Province of Manitoba and charged with the responsibility of enforcing criminal law legislation, the way our constitutional system works is that it is the federal government that has the authority to pass criminal law amendments. Indeed our entire criminal justice system, while the substantive legal principles and offences are set out in our Criminal Code or a Young Offenders Act, or similar legislation, the Narcotics Control Act, in many of these cases, since specifically the Criminal Code and the Young Offenders Act, the responsibility for enforcing the legislation is placed in the hands of the local Attorney General.

When I say responsibility for enforcement, I mean the prosecution of offences under those acts. Our constitutional system also recognizes the responsibility of local government, municipalities to actually do the day-to-day, street-level enforcement of our criminal law. So what we see here is a necessity for all three governments to act in concert in order to bring about any long-lasting effective policy or program, very essential that all three levels of government participate in this.

(Mr. Ben Sveinson, Acting Speaker, in the Chair)

I know the issue, for example, and this is related to the entire problem, this is a more recent example of this problem. The problem of the Firearms Act that is being brought in by the federal Liberal government, essentially bringing about new criminal law and then essentially requesting the province to enforce its legislation, even in cases where we think that this legislation is not the appropriate mechanism to deal with what is an admittedly serious problem.

It is this lack of co-operative federalism that is behind the problem in issues like the Firearms Act and, indeed, like the Young Offenders Act. These are specific manifestations of a much, much greater problem. Under the Young Offenders Act, for example, we have stated to the federal government that we do not think that the arbitrary age of 12 before one can be charged with an offence under the Young Offenders Act in the Criminal Code is appropriate. We feel that there should be discretion left in the hands of the judiciary to, in those appropriate cases, bring young offenders within the scope of the act. No one is saying that we should be sending these young offenders to Millhaven or Stony Mountain or even Headingley jail, but the judiciary should retain that amount of discretion in appropriate cases, bringing the resources of the justice system to bear upon those children.

Yet the federal government has refused to acknowledge that very, very serious problem. Indeed, when I raised this issue with the federal Justice minister a month or so ago in a public meeting, or should I say in a meeting of all the other Justice ministers, their response was that the problem was not really that serious. Indeed, one of his bureaucrats indicated that there had only been in Canada eight murders by people under the age of 12 years old, and so the situation was not that serious.

I am not blaming the bureaucrats. The bureaucrats were simply bringing the information forward. This is bad law. It is bad policy, and what is bad is for the children that do not learn to recognize that there are consequences for the actions that they bring. Again, this is a problem that shows how provinces, municipalities and the federal government have to work together in a co-ordinated fashion.

I know the Winnipeg Free Press was overly concerned, I think, when they criticized me for the position that I took with the Minister of Foreign Affairs. Oh, oh, point of order, I think.

Mr. Gary Kowalski (The Maples): I have been listening very attentively on this very serious resolution brought forward by the member for Rupertsland (Mr. Robinson). I know he feels very strongly about this resolution. I have been listening to the minister's comments about gun control, about young offenders, and I am really looking for the relevancy of it to deal with this very serious resolution this member has brought forward. I am sure he would like it debated as opposed to gun control or the Young Offenders Act. I would like to hear any speakers' comments in regard to that resolution and not on a number of other issues that, although debatable, are not the subject of this resolution.

Mr. Toews: I think the point that I am making is absolutely crucial to this entire area. The question that it is shared responsibility between federal, provincial and municipal authorities, and that the problems I am pointing out with the Young Offenders Act, with the Firearms Act, are indicative of a broader problem, that when we go to address these issues--

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Sveinson): I thank both honourable members for their words of advice. I would ask all members, in speaking to the resolution, to keep their words as relevant as possible.

Mr. Toews: Thank you for that direction.

An Honourable Member: An action plan for the province.

(Mr. Marcel Laurendeau, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair)

Mr. Toews: Yes, and I think when we need to raise and deal with an action plan, we have to get all the parties together at the same table. The issue of gangs, for example, which is to some extent an aboriginal justice issue given the component of the gangs clearly recognized by aboriginal community leaders, that this is a problem that they share in as well.

What is very, very clear is that the federal government has to be at the table. The Justice Minister Allan Rock is very fond of saying that we have to get all the players on one side of the table and the problems on the other side of the table. I think that when we are talking about the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry and some of the issues, yes, let us make sure that all the players are at the table ready to deal with these issues so that it can be dealt with in a comprehensive way.

The Aboriginal Justice Inquiry report is in fact an indication of that very problem, that more than half of the recommendations made relate to federal jurisdiction, so without the federal government taking an active interest in the resolution of these problems, the province, under its constitutional authority, can only do so much.

I know there are other speakers in the House who want to deal with this particular issue. I trust that some of them will be going into some of the detail of the province's endeavours in this respect. I am by no means suggesting that we ignore specifics of what the province has already done. The province has done many things. I believe in respect of our justice system itself, while it is recognized that there can only be one justice system for Canada, everyone is entitled to justice in Canada, but that does not mean that the specifics of the situation cannot be altered or accommodated to meet specific needs.

I can think of no clearer example than the issue of how the aboriginal community has been affected by our justice situation. It would be an understatement to say that they are overrepresented in our justice community. Mr. Deputy Speaker, 12 percent of our population in the province of Manitoba is aboriginal and yet of the jails that I have toured that fall under my jurisdiction, in many of them a majority of the inmates are of aboriginal descent. There is clearly an issue that needs to be addressed.

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Specifically, in speaking about Corrections, I had a conversation up in The Pas with the community there, with the chiefs in The Pas and I have had a chance to speak to them twice in the last few months. There was real interest expressed in the community in the natives running their own jail. One of the suggestions that was made was the jail north of The Pas, the Egg Lake camp. They thought that would be an ideal place to put into practice philosophies and programs that were more suitable to the natives concept of justice. Those are the kinds of things that I want my department to continue to work on.

Yes, even though I can say in the House here today that all of the recommendations by the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry do not fall within our jurisdiction, there are many areas where we can and indeed have moved to ensure that the justice situation, the justice system is more reflective of the community.

One of the things that we can learn from, for example, is the northern magistrates program. We, in many of the isolated communities, have brought magistrates into specific communities. This assists the community, gives the community a sense of ownership, a sense of belonging to the justice system. Not only have these additions to our justice system, these unique additions, brought this sense of ownership, they in fact have taught us that we can learn from aboriginal concepts regarding justice, that these indeed are concepts that we can bring in to influence our justice system generally. Concepts such as the family group conferencing, which is essentially an aboriginal idea brought from New Zealand or Australia, embraced now by many--

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member's time has expired.

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): I want to first quote from the conclusion, the last words of the AJI report. It states: Canada's treatment of its first citizens has been an international disgrace. To fail to take every step needed to address this lingering injustice will continue to bring tragedy and suffering to aboriginal people, and to blacken our country's name throughout the world. By acting now, governments can give positive expression to the public support and good will we have encountered from Manitobans during the last three years.

At the beginning of the report, indeed the first words are the date, August 12, 1991. I think the warning, strong words of the conclusion have to be related to those first words being the date in the report, a date that is now almost six years ago. I think that in itself is part of our social tragedy here in Manitoba.

In the inquiry a concern about the follow-up to the recommendations are noted. Indeed Chief Louis Stevenson on behalf of the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs stated, "It must be abundantly clear that any recommendations that flow from this Inquiry and stated in unequivocal terms, that these recommendations have to be actioned, otherwise this Inquiry will result only in an exercise that builds up the hope of Indian people only to devastate whatever little faith that remains."

Then Chief Oscar Lathlin of The Pas band stated, of course before he was a member, and I quote, "This is the biggest fear that we have of this Inquiry, that nothing will be done once the Inquiry is over."

So then, as a result of that fear expressed, the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry made a recommendation, or a series of them, regarding a strategy for action to ensure that this monumental work of such great promise to the future integrity and working of our community here in Manitoba, they set out there, for example, the recommendation that there be an aboriginal justice commission established by legislation with a board of equal numbers of aboriginal and government representatives, an independent chair. The commission's task was to be the monitoring and assisting government implementation of the recommendations of this inquiry.

I think that was a good recommendation, Mr. Deputy Speaker. There are certainly other ways to begin to implement the recommendations in this report in a comprehensive way, and there are other ways to monitor progress, but there was one example. There are others in here talking about how action can be facilitated. I think it is the saddest comment that one has to make, to observe that the inquiry recommendations even on the framework that could allow the implementation of the report has not been implemented.

Now, I heard from the Minister of Justice (Mr. Toews) again today the kinds of arguments that have been made by ministers of Justice in the past, recently in Manitoba, when it comes to demands on this government to take action on critical issues of public safety and justice. The response is blame the federal government. Bring the feds into the argument. Make them the scapegoat. Build up a case that all of the justice concerns can really be solved most effectively by changing what, Mr. Deputy Speaker? The Criminal Code, because that is the primary federal responsibility in the area of justice.

I mean, that is the thinking that holds, not only that the solutions to public safety concerns are police and prosecutions, but even going further, that the real ultimate solution is simply by changing the Criminal Code, and I think that is a terribly simplistic and, indeed, erroneous and politically motivated answer to a call on the provincial government for action.

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Of course, the minister then goes on to say that over half of the recommendations in the inquiry are exclusively federal. Well, why is it that the government's own news release, following the release of the AJI in January of 1992 said that only 19 percent were within federal jurisdiction, and why is it that that same news release said that the largest grouping in there, that is 36 percent, were entirely provincial?

Even if you look at this report which said that 22 percent were to be joint federal-provincial, I ask, for all the recommendations, where is the leadership from this province? How can they just get up and say, well, it is up to the federal government. I have not heard this government scream about the federal position on AJI. I will take a few minutes to do that for what it is worth, not because over half of the recommendations are federal but because, indeed, the federal government does have a role to play, and I would not be fulfilling my role if I did not express concern. I mean, there was Lloyd Axworthy back in August of 1991 who did say the real success of the work that has been done in Manitoba--he was talking about AJI--will be measured by the actions of the federal government.

But my focus, by definition of my job description, what people sent me to work for, was to talk about the provincial government. It was Jim Downey, the then minister responsible for Native Affairs--he was the chair of the Native Affairs committee of cabinet--who said way back when, we will be judged by time as it goes on, and he was referring to the implementation of the recommendations. But, once again, one year after receiving such a substantive document, it is a little much to expect miracles to take place.

Well, Mr. Deputy Speaker, who is talking about miracles almost six years later? It was the same minister who said in August of 1993 that this report is not going to be a doorstop in someone's office, and we have seen this as a doorstop to the offices of at least three ministers of Justice, at least the same number of ministers of Native Affairs. It is a dusty, dusty doorstop.

Now, it is interesting to hear from the federal Minister of Justice when he came to town a few weeks ago for the invited guests' meeting to talk about gangs. The Minister of Justice at the federal level was commending the Province of Saskatchewan. There was no political motivation, I suggest, Mr. Deputy Speaker, for him to reference Saskatchewan, but he congratulated Saskatchewan's move to partner with the federal government on what is known as the National Aboriginal Justice Initiatives Program. Saskatchewan, he said, was leading the country, leading the nation in taking positive initiatives to respond to the need for new approaches to justice for our First Nations. Yet in the province that is the home of the AJI we do not see that kind of a track record.

What we did see was an appropriation of $1 million for Aboriginal Justice Initiatives coming up every year for the last three or four years in the Estimates. Now, this year we noted that that item had disappeared, and the minister responded, well, now those items have been put into the line by line in the department. We will be interested to see whether in fact monies have also been shifted or whether there will be a new competition for resources within the line by line between the aboriginal and the existing justice system.

The government always used the excuse and the example, or the example, excuse me, of several--well, let us for example use the St. Theresa Point youth justice initiative up there as one of the uses for that $1-million fund. We know that project at St. Theresa Point predated the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry. In fact, it was referenced as an example of the wonderful things that can happen with youth justice committees and community-based justice, and I believe it was stated in there that youth crime became virtually nonexistent in that community, and they attributed it to the work of that court. But the government came by and said, well, look what we are doing as a result of the AJI report, look at St. Theresa Point. You know, it was not even telling the truth.

We are seeing in Manitoba a very, very rapid change in our community. I think just even in the last three or four years our city here, for example, in Winnipeg is not the same city that it was three or four years ago. It has become more violent. The growth, the emergence of street gangs is on everyone's mind. It does not seem to be on the mind of the government very much, and I have said time and time again, how they could ignore that as an issue to itself within both the throne speech and budget speech is beyond me, Mr. Deputy Speaker. That they have not come back yet despite the emergence of these street gangs three or four years ago with a comprehensive plan is bewildering and I think threatening.

They have now, this government, become part of the problem, and I believe that if the government had taken heed of the recommendations of the spirit of the AJI, of its promise, and do as it said in its news release in 1992 that acceptance of the recommendations could alter the role of aboriginals in Manitoba society, I believe that things would have been different today, that the predominance of the disproportionate involvement of aboriginal youth in our street gangs would have been different, that their disproportionate involvement in the justice system would have been different.

Who else says that? It is not some New Democrat. It is Mr. Justice Hughes. Well, he may be a New Democrat. I do not believe he was able to vote for some period of time. He is retired now. But I do not think there is any political bent to Mr. Hughes. He was retained by this government after their careful selection but, in November 1996, here comes AJI again. Mr. Hughes says to the government, I think you had better look at those recommendations, because they go to the essence of what happened at Headingley Jail. They go the essence of what is happening with street gangs. They go the essence of what is happening with the increase of violence in Manitoba society. We are, what, three or four times the increase in violence crime of all the other provinces in Canada.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, we are out of wack, and Mr. Hughes says, it would seem to me that if change is going to occur, the Hamilton-Sinclair report should be the significant driving force. He goes on to say that as commendable as that $1 million in the budget was, the one that is gone now, these accomplishments, as commendable as they are, the offsetting factor that cannot be overlooked is that the numbers insofar as incarceration are concerned show no signs of improvement. They must improve, and he goes on, when he talks about the real solution, particularly to gangs, to again cite the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry, and I would refer members opposite to read that. People in the know, people who have looked at the situation, people on the street, the aboriginal communities know the promise that is held by the AJI recommendations and the promise that this government has turned its back on. Thank you.

Hon. David Newman (Minister responsible for Native Affairs): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am pleased to speak to this resolution, but against it.

The value of the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry report has primarily been in changing attitudes and providing an education. It has also attracted the attention of the aboriginal communities, whether they be Status Indian or non-Status Indian or Metis or what is just called "northerners," and the urban aboriginal population who do not identify themselves with any particular group as well. The broader community, the multicultural community of this province, has benefited from the attention focused on the perspective of our justice system through aboriginal eyes and those people who made presentations to the inquiry commission.

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However, it is oversimplistic, I would submit, to just take the recommendations in the report and check them off as if that has the answers, that that is the total answer. It is simply a contribution to an ongoing consideration of a very complex situation, and the solution is lying more and more, it appears, in the eyes of the communities themselves, I would submit, and in the government people, whether federal, provincial or municipal. The solution appears to lie in the people themselves, in grassroots approaches.

My experience in my participation in government so far, making a considerable effort to try and understand the magnitude of the problem, the nature of the problem, that is, doing justice, is that it is a kind of challenge that is not just within the four corners of what has traditionally been called the justice system or the Justice department. Even the aboriginal approach to justice is a small "j" approach to justice, and it is more holistic than legal systems, than lawyers and judges. Through the eyes and the mouths of the aboriginals that I have heard speak, whether they be elders or youth, or those in the middle, when they speak of justice, they are talking about something entirely different than lawyers talk about or judges have traditionally talked about. They are talking about the broadest kind of dispute resolution. They are talking about holistic health, and they are talking about healing. Justice is just one component of a multifaceted approach to doing small "j" justice and doing healing and doing health improvement.

Having said that, what our government is doing, I would submit, and now highlighted in a way like never before in the recent throne speech of this government. Our government is approaching the challenge in a holistic way. I am pleased that the honourable member for Rupertsland (Mr. Robinson) highlighted some of those kinds of grassroots and holistic solutions.

The one that he mentioned, which is a good example of a greater commitment by our government, is the Northern Youth Summer Program. That was supported to the extent of $50,000 in 1996. This year our government has supported it to the extent of $100,000. That is a contribution which is intended to be at least matched by the federal government and also matched by the community and the corporate community. Some of that funding, as I understand it, is going to be used to hire fundraising people, because the corporate organization, which was described by that honourable member, Mochikitahwak , is committed to operating and owning that program now for their second year of involvement and making it sustainable and better.

We must not forget also that that kind of program which is focused on not only providing activity for young people, is also a source of employment for many northerners, many northerners who are members of the bands in the MKO group. The program is status-blind. It serves not just bands, but it also serves northern communities, and those northern communities fall within my portfolio as Minister of Northern Affairs.

Those communities, just like the bands, pay for participation in this program, so they gain the strengthening of those young people in the form of when they come home, they contribute by being role models and by being better citizens. They have learned to get along. They have learned some of the sorts of things you learn by being involved in sports and learning experiences with other young people from other communities. They then contribute to the development over the long term of healthy, sustainable and more self-reliant communities, which are the mission of those of my department with respect to northern communities.

This is very consistent with what is happening, of course, with the devolution process, the dismantling process of Indian Affairs with respect to Status Indian bands in the North. So that is one example of a holistic kind of solution and an investment of importance which will bring long-term benefits. It is no accident that the source of that funding is the Justice department's Aboriginal Justice Inquiry Initiatives fund.

There is a whole host of other investments of the same kind that is broad based, focused on the community, focused on you, and these come in a variety of different ways. For example, when I was in Thompson for the Easter weekend and Easter spring break, participating in the youth conference on that weekend and then the justice conference, introducing the First Nations justice strategy throughout the week, I noted the various ways that our government is making a contribution. Our government supported the youth conference in Thompson. It was an aboriginal youth conference. The commitment of those young people was demonstrated just by the fact the opening of the conference was on Good Friday at five o'clock in the afternoon, and the work began at that time. The organizers of that conference were the very Greg McIvor, who is the executive director of the corporation that runs the Northern Youth Summer Program, and two individual aboriginal youths who did credit to their communities and credit to their people. They attracted over 200 young people, 200 aboriginals from the different northern communities to that conference, and they participated on the Saturday of Easter weekend and the Sunday of Easter weekend and then on Easter Monday as well.

I was proud, as a member of government, to have supported that financially and to have supported it also by being there and learning from them and sharing with them. Similarly, with the First Nations justice strategy, which lasted for three days that same week--this is a unique initiative, and it involves a provincial investment of over $400,000 from the Department of Justice. I am very proud of our government's support of this initiative. It is doing, in an evolving way, the sorts of things, some of the good things that the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry has asked of the government of Manitoba.

The way that that conference was set up was again working towards a solution in that long-term investment kind of way that I have been talking about. They had three representatives from each of the 26 MKO bands there, and I had a chance to meet with them. I had a chance to spend a great deal of time conversing with them and learning about each of their perspectives on justice and the communities' perspectives on justice and, you know, I was very pleased.

I have heard the honourable member from Rupertsland (Mr. Robinson) talk about the defecating in buckets from Shamattawa, and I, in some exchanges with my honourable friend, have indicated that I thought that was one of the most beautiful places in the world to live, to work, to raise a family--truly one of the most beautiful settings in the world.

The same with Tadoule Lake, and I met with people from both of those areas and they were there; three of them from each of those areas, to come back and bring home more knowledge so they could have justice committees. It was interesting, the majority of them were females.

Mr. Chairperson: Order, please. When this matter is again before the House, the honourable member will have three minutes remaining. The hour being 6 p.m., I am leaving the Chair with the understanding that the House will resume in Committee of Supply at 8 p.m.