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Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, my question is to the First Minister (Mr. Filmon). We have become aware that a certain regional board, specifically the central health authority, has determined that the board meetings will be held in private. They will not be open to the public.

I would like to ask the Premier is this acceptable in terms of open, accountable government, and will he be instructing his Minister of Health to make all of those regional health boards open to the public?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition raises a very important issue in the operation of regional health boards. Obviously, it is a matter of having the right balance in allowing a board to be able to conduct and do its work and have a free-flowing discussion on issues, while at the same time ensuring that the public knows what is going on and also, I would add, has an opportunity to make representations to that board from time to time in an appropriate manner. I am working now with those regional health boards to try to strike the right balance. I am aware of the situation in the central health region, and we hope that can be achieved.

Mr. Doer: We feel the government failed the test of balance in terms of democracy when it failed to allow the people of Manitoba to have the balance to elect those boards. We have the imbalance of a patronage-appointed system by the present government, so you have failed the first test of democratic balance.

I would like to ask the minister will he instruct the Central Region Health Board and other boards that are contemplating the issue of closed meetings--will he have as a standard that these board meetings must be fully open?

The government has said that Manitobans must have more local control to meet their health care needs. Will he issue those instructions to the regional health care boards so communities, particularly in central Manitoba, will feel that their board is open and accountable as promised by the government but not presently existing in the way the boards are meeting?

Mr. Praznik: I think we certainly agree that there has to be the right balance, but the Leader of the Opposition asks his question as if we were operating in a void. I do not recall any instructions from the New Democratic Party, when they were in government, to every hospital board across this province that every one of their meetings should be totally open to the public when in fact they were administering health care for the people of this province.

So for the Leader of the Opposition to say that today just tells me he really is not concerned about finding the right balance but more about making a point that is really not valid.

Mr. Doer: We are not making decisions in a void, we are making decisions in the backroom. This government is allowing the government to do so.

We have promised and committed ourselves to elected representatives, democratically elected representatives as recommended by the government's own rural and northern task force.

I would like to ask the Premier (Mr. Filmon) will he give us elected regional boards, No. 1, and will he make those board meetings open to the public all across Manitoba?

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, let me say very clearly that it is our intention to ensure there is a proper balance in the operation of those boards that allows them to do the work that they need to sometimes do in camera. That happens from time to time on a number of issues. It happens now with municipal councils. The Leader of the Opposition was part of a constitutional committee with myself that did our deliberations in camera. I do not recall him advocating it should be totally open.

We will hope to find the right balance, because the fundamental point he raises about a degree of the public access in knowing what is going on I recognize and support. Surely to goodness, we can find the right balance.

With respect to elections, the bill does provide for that, but I would expect that he would also support, as part of any plan to have elections of those boards--would also come in accountability to the taxpayer with the right to levy a tax to pick up their deficits. I gather that is the position of the New Democratic Party.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, we are receiving calls from numerous outraged Manitobans, and seniors in particular, who again find out without notice, without any kind of advance discussion from the government, that they have to provide their 1995 income tax assessment forms in order to qualify for their Pharmacare deductibles. We have seniors that do not have those forms.

My question to the Minister of Health is how can the minister explain why the government is intruding into the private lives of Manitobans who did their tax forms. Will the minister advise this House whether or not people will be denied their Pharmacare benefits if they do not provide their 1995 tax assessment notices?

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Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): I am aware of this particular issue. Again, it is one of balance. I am advised that our people in the department, in doing checking on auditing of claims last year--and I do not have the exact numbers for the member, but I am sure we will discuss those in Estimates--discovered that in many cases people had provided inaccurate information with respect to their incomes.

As I am sure the member would appreciate--and I am not saying that they did it in a fraudulent way--sometimes inaccurate information is given. You are dealing with people who may have some confusion in extracting that information from their tax form, and they do give us the right now to access their information through Revenue Canada to check that, Madam Speaker. This is a much faster and convenient way to determine their income level and hence their deductible. Surely to goodness, the member would not be condoning an administrative system that allowed some people to not receive the appropriate amount of money, because that obviously comes at the expense of others.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, why would the government dare--and I will table a copy of someone's Notice of Assessment--force Manitobans to provide this sensitive, private, personal information to the government with no checks in place, with no legislation? Why would the government dare do this without any privacy legislation, without any kind of checks and balances and without any protection from misuse by the government or by any other officials? Why would the government dare do this?

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, I know we are going to get into the detailed discussion, but there was a variety of discrepancies, some as high as $9,000 in income, on the audit that was done. Surely the member cannot condone that type of unfairness in the administration of the plan.

The member rises today as if this is a new thing. There are other government programs, both federal and provincial, that require the provision of similar types of information.

Madam Speaker, again, all of the regular protections that are there for people apply in this case. It is simply that the accurate amount can be determined. I am sure there are even some cases where people overstate their income and that may affect them. So this is a check to ensure that the system is properly administered. I do not know if the member has an alternative that is more applicable. If he does, I would hope he would offer it.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, the alternative is to restore the universal health care program and the Pharmacare that we had.

Madam Speaker, my final supplementary to the minister is the same as my initial supplementary. How can the government dare to ask Manitobans to provide this very sensitive information? In fact, they are not even asking for '96, they are asking for the year before 1995. People do not understand that. How can they ask for this information without protection in place to protect citizens from unlawful or illegal or inappropriate use of their very sensitive tax information? There is no legislation, no protection.

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, I can assure the member that if anyone in the administration of this program misuses this information, that would be an unlawful use of that material. It is provided for one purpose and one purpose only, and that is to determine the eligibility. As an MLA, the member would know from time to time we have constituents whom we help complete forms that require that same type of information to determine their eligibility for other programs.

The member talks about universal Pharmacare. Let us remember that Manitoba today has one of the richest, if not the richest, Pharmacare program in the country.

Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland): Madam Speaker, in the throne speech, this government after eight years in office noted for the first time that there are children living in poverty and most of them are aboriginal. Of course, we welcomed this new insight by this government and hoped that this budget would contain major initiatives in this area and, of course, that did not occur.

I would like to ask the Minister of Northern Affairs whether he could tell this House what plans this government has with respect to the implementation of the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry, the Northern Economic Development Commission, the Hughes report and, also, the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples.

Hon. David Newman (Minister responsible for Native Affairs): Madam Speaker, what I am pleased to respond to is the opportunity to give information as to the kinds of things that are being done pursuant to the report of the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry that are consistent with our multicultural society and our judicial system as it has been but building on the experiences and wisdom of the aboriginal people and also their traditions and values.

One of the things that is going to emerge in the next few days through announcements is a substantial contribution, along with the federal government and others, to what used to be the fly-in sports camp in northern Manitoba. That has been approved and will be forthcoming.

Also, in downtown Winnipeg in the core area, there will be a major contribution to a program through the school system dealing with the local gang issue, and that will be announced in the next few days as well.

Thirdly, with respect to Child Find, an announcement of funding for a program for aboriginals is forthcoming in the next few days.

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Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland): I read the '97-98 Estimates, and in the last four years it has been $1 million as far as aboriginal justice initiatives are concerned. This year I noted that the fund that was originally what I described earlier is now referred to as aboriginal and other justice-related issues.

I would like to ask the minister to tell this House what action he has taken with respect to the AJI Fund that we have been hearing about for a long time and whether or not it was indeed eliminated from the '97 budget.

Hon. David Newman (Minister responsible for Native Affairs): Madam Speaker, that is probably more appropriately a question for the Minister of Justice (Mr. Toews). However, the monies that I have just referred to funding the programs I have spoken about come out of the budget line for the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry Initiatives. Some of the programs I believe that are being considered for the coming year fall under the ambit of the $1.5-million budget line, and those kind of initiatives will be pursued under that line, as I understand it.

Mr. Robinson: My final question is then for the Minister of Justice. Perhaps the minister could tell us why the word "aboriginal" is not so important at this time, it appears, and, also, what has happened to each of the programs that were funded under the AJI initiatives fund that we knew it as previously.

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): This government remains committed to ensuring that practical and reasonable programs are implemented in respect of the issues identified in both the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry, in the Hughes report and others.

There are very specific areas that we can talk of. Some of the things have been mentioned by my colleague. Another that I am very proud of is the First Nations Policing Policy in Manitoba, a very important issue, I think, that arose out of the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry to ensure that there is a more representative population in our police forces or indeed in First Nations police forces.

I might indicate that, of the 62 First Nations communities in the province of Manitoba, there are 34 which are at or approaching the negotiating stage. Twenty are in the consultation stage and eight, in fact, have signed agreements. These are specific, concrete proposals that have been implemented, and we are very proud to proceed in that direction.

Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas): I would like to ask the Minister of Northern Affairs a question regarding the Cross Lake First Nation.

Madam Speaker, in view of the fact that Claim No. 109 of the Cross Lake First Nation, arising from the Northern Flood Agreement, has been adjudicated now twice in favour of the Cross Lake First Nation for a vehicle bridge on the Nelson River, I would like to ask the minister as to when he will proceed, without delay, to construct the vehicle bridge at the Nelson River, because he has now received two decisions that are in favour of the Cross Lake First Nation for a bridge.

Hon. David Newman (Minister of Northern Affairs): Madam Speaker, I am familiar with that issue, and my understanding is we are awaiting an arbitral award chaired by the arbitrator named in the agreement. That award has not been forthcoming. It would be inappropriate for me to comment on it, but I do understand that an award is forthcoming.

I actually visited Cross Lake and saw the situation and appreciated what the need was, and whether or not that is adequately serviced by a ferry or needs $10 million for a bridge is another question. That is the very issue, as I understand it, the arbitrator is deciding.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for The Pas, with a supplementary question.

Mr. Lathlin: Madam Speaker, this is a very serious matter, and I am not even in a joking mood about it, but I would nevertheless ask the Minister of Northern Affairs as to when he will adjust this year's budget and include the costs of the bridge at the Nelson River for Cross Lake. Will he now include the costs of that bridge in the budget?

Mr. Newman: The simple answer to that is no, Madam Speaker. However, the question about the arbitration award, if the arbitration award has come out and I have not yet seen it, I will of course review it and I will make whatever decisions are appropriate in light of that particular recommendation or decision, which I have not seen yet.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

Yesterday I asked the question with respect to regional health boards and when are we going to see elections of regional health boards. The minister today tries to give the impression that his concern is one of taxation rights. My question specific to the minister: is it because of that particular question that we are not seeing elected regional boards? Is that the only reason for the prevention of the government moving ahead?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): First of all, Madam Speaker, virtually 100 percent of the financing of health care is voted through this Legislative Assembly. We are elected and have that responsibility. If you look at democracy and election, with the responsibilities that come with governance, one of those is also the responsibility to return directly to the taxpayer with the results of your decisions.

When the original health authorities bill was put through this Legislature, passed by this Legislature, my predecessor provided in that bill for the possibility of election. That may come in sometime, but, Madam Speaker, surely the day in which it comes would also have to come the mechanism and the acceptance of a taxation authority to go with that. I have yet to detect a willingness on the part of anyone to see that happen.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, will the Minister of Health acknowledge other jurisdictions, such as Quebec, where they do have the election of regional health boards and they do not have taxation rights, and that this is because of the political will? That is why I ask the minister will he acknowledge that the political will to move towards the election of regional boards just is not there? They would just as soon appoint, as opposed to allowing Manitobans the ability to elect their representatives for health care.

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, I also believe in Saskatchewan initially they had elected boards without a taxation authority, and from reports from that particular jurisdiction, they found that it was not that successful of a venture because in these initial stages of setting up these boards there is a lot of work that has to take place. There is a lot of change of thinking. We are changing the model, the fundamental model in which we deliver health care.

Once we are through this very important implementation stage, the opportunity to move to election is certainly there. Madam Speaker, I do not offer opinion one way or another, but let us understand that where elected models are successful, they also have to have a taxing authority. If not, it is very easy to make decisions and then blame the financial consequences on someone else.

Mr. Neil Gaudry (St. Boniface): Madam Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Agriculture. I understand Taiwan, a country that accounts for 50 percent of Japan's pork imports, has suspended all of its exports of domestically produced meat products. This offers an exceptional opportunity for Manitoba pork industry, but Saskatchewan seems to be filling this role with their packers signing an exclusive million-dollar contract to provide chilled and frozen pork to Taiwan. The minister has previously stated his objective is to double the size of Manitoba's hog industry, and in fact he removed the monopoly for Manitoba pork in order to accomplish--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. Would the honourable member please pose his question.

Mr. Gaudry: Can the minister inform the House if Manitoba packers are going to be announcing similar contracts with Taiwanese firms, or did he miss the boat?

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Agriculture): Madam Speaker, I want to assure the honourable member for St. Boniface that I was not trying to get on any boat and that the boat in respect to Manitoba pork is sailing along as anticipated and beyond expectations. I can report to the honourable member that pork production declined by 7 percent in the province of Saskatchewan while ours is still increasing in double-digit numbers. I am aware that corporations like J. M. Schneider, with their $40-million expansion plans, are specifically targeting the Japanese market.

While I am on my feet, Madam Speaker, regrettably, this is the case in agriculture, all too often, somebody else's ill wind is good wind for somebody else. It is true that the island country of Taiwan is suffering a very serious problem with respect to hog production, and I would expect Manitoba producers, Canadian producers, to take full advantage of it.

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Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Madam Speaker, after years of abuse, we are told, a mother of two finally went to the police and charges were laid. A trial date was set for October, but the accused was acquitted because not a single witness was subpoenaed. The trial went ahead anyway, yet again.

My question for the Minister of Justice: can the minister possibly explain how he could say--and I am interpreting his letter to me--why complain to me, it is not my problem, when it is his department that has conduct of a trial, has to secure witnesses, can seek a stay or an adjournment and oversees police procedures?

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, for the member for St. Johns to read in such a gross misrepresentation of my letter to him is simply inexcusable. I would ask him to table that letter so that the members here can in fact see what I said instead of putting very, very misleading statements before this House.

Mr. Mackintosh: Madam Speaker, I will be pleased to table that letter since the victim has come forward and, indeed, is here today seeking justice. I do not have that on me; I will ensure that I table that before the end of Oral Questions.

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Can the minister possibly explain why the victim was never so much as told about the Women's Advocacy Program which, according to the former minister, provides legal and other information, emotional support and short-term counselling to women while charges are outstanding against their partners? She never heard about it until we advised her last week.

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, I can look into that specific issue and get back to the member.

I want to assure all members of the public that we are concerned about any situation where there is an allegation that justice was not done. In this particular case, the RCMP were asked about the particular situation, and I, in fact, explained the situation to the member for St. Johns in my letter to him. In fact, in this particular case the RCMP has indicated its role in the situation and I am satisfied in that respect that this was simply an oversight. That does not make up for the hardship for the particular individual in question, but I have to look at an entire system and I want to make sure that the system works for each individual. I am satisfied we are taking the necessary steps to ensure that this kind of situation is not repeated.

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): If that is so, I ask the minister why he has not personally responded to the concerns of the victim, not at all, why he has not apologized, why he has not ensured a change in protocol to the Crown, the police, the Women's Advocacy Program, why he has not reviewed this case to see if charges can be relaid or different charges laid, why he has not even ensured disciplinary action, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, if the member for St. Johns were not a lawyer, that kind of comment would be excusable, but the member for St. Johns is a lawyer and for him to suggest that as a political official I interfere in the laying of charges is reprehensible.

Mr. Mackintosh: I would like to table the letter that was referred to, the letter that avoids the minister's responsibility and accountability, Madam Speaker.

Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): Madam Speaker, last year 14 Manitoba women were murdered by their male partners, and today a Manitoba woman told the media of an out and out travesty of justice--the one just mentioned by the member for St. Johns--the dismissal of charges against her violent partner. The Minister of Justice knows very well that his government has not kept the faith with these 14 dead women nor with women, like the one with us today, who are promised justice and then denied it.

Since the Pedlar report and the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry are gathering dust while women are battered and murdered, I offer the minister the NDP Task Force on Violence Against Women, and I would like to ask the minister where his commitment is to end violence against women in Manitoba.

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I thank the member for tabling the report.

I can assure her that as a former prosecutor, I know where I stand in respect of issues relating to justice for victims, and that is, we in fact are very concerned--[interjection] Well, perhaps the member for Wellington (Ms. Barrett) wants to answer the question since she will not let me finish.

Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): Since the report of the Lavoie inquiry scheduled originally for release on June 30 presumably contains recommendations which might prevent murder and abuse, I want to ask the minister when we might expect this long-delayed report.

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): As indicated, I thank the member for tabling the report, and I will ensure that that report is reviewed to ensure that all necessary and reasonable steps that can be taken will be taken.

Ms. McGifford: Madam Speaker, I asked the minister when we might expect the report of the Lavoie inquiry, not the NDP Task Force Report on Violence Against Women.

Mr. Toews: Well, Madam Speaker, if the member is suggesting that I phone up a member of the judiciary and ask about the report, I can tell her very clearly that I will not interfere with the exercise of judicial responsibility.

Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): Madam Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Highways. As the minister knows, I have previously requested detailed information on the proposed privatization of gravel maintenance in rural and northern Manitoba and the job losses for rural and northern Manitoba. Does he finally have this information, including the actual bids for each project? Will he now table each of the bids and tell the House which, if any, have been approved?

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Madam Speaker, I think I understood the member to talk about the tenders to the private sector. Is that right? The tenders have been received, and none of the tenders were accepted.

Mr. Jennissen: Is the reason that the tenders were not accepted the fact that they were at least 20 percent higher than they would have normally been expected to be?

Mr. Findlay: I will repeat my answer. Tenders are received in an open tendering process. Many people submitted tenders and none were accepted.

Mr. Jennissen: What are the plans for the existing equipment and yards? Are they being sold off, or will they be sold off at garage sale prices?

Mr. Findlay: We have in the vicinity of some 80 yards in the province. I am not aware that we are selling equipment from any of the yards. We are certainly doing an analysis of where that equipment can most efficiently be used in the province. It is an ongoing process. Sometimes R.M.s come to us and ask--or former LGDs--for an opportunity to take ownership of that equipment, and we sit down and have those discussions on a case-by-case basis.

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Madam Speaker, yesterday the Minister of Environment said he did not know where the waste was being deposited, and I should be providing more information. Well, I would like to table the sites that I identified earlier last week for the minister.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Swan River, to finish her question.

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Ms. Wowchuk: Maybe with this map the minister will finally start to understand what is going on.

I would like to ask the minister if he just does not know what is going on in his department. Is he completely incompetent by saying yesterday he did not know where the sites were when in fact his department had inspected them on Thursday and Friday of last week?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Environment): Madam Speaker, I am very pleased indeed that the conscience of the honourable member for Swan River has finally kicked in today, and she has produced some information that environment officers can use as they search for this pile of bark and wood fines four metres high and two football fields long. We will be very pleased to further inquire. I suspect that, if these sites are not the Louisiana-Pacific sites themselves, they have already been looked at.

As I said to the honourable member yesterday, there are no sites at the present time that are endangering the environment in any way, but we will reinspect and reinspect as long as this honourable member continues to play the games that she does. We will not play games. We will be serious about the environment, but we will not put in jeopardy 400 jobs while we are at it.

Ms. Wowchuk: Madam Speaker, since the minister still appears to be in the dark where these large piles of waste are situated, I would like to table some photographs for him and tell him that these are located on the bank of the West Stable River and ask him how these sites fit in with their plan--

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. Would the honourable member for Swan River quickly pose her question because I could not hear it over the roar from the members.

Ms. Wowchuk: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Now that I have provided him with the photographs, can the minister tell us how this site fits in with the permission that L-P has been given to use this material for livestock bedding when there are absolutely no livestock in the vicinity of this dump site?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, the honourable member has been playing games with the people of Manitoba and the Department of Environment since February 12 when she first made a complaint. Since that time, I and the department have been trying to extract information that this honourable member claims to have, and she has brought forward information that is extremely misleading in its nature.

At first I thought, well, I have a lot of respect for this honourable member, we are going to follow up her complaints very seriously. That is what we have done and we will continue to do, but the people are a little fed up with gamesmanship.

Ms. Wowchuk: I hope that the minister will take seriously the concerns of the people of the valley.

I would like to ask any member of this government if they feel it is acceptable for a government to repair and grass down waterways with money from Farming for Tomorrow and Emergency Measures in one year and then, a few years later, fill it up with chips and waste from the mill and say that is okay for environmental practices.

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, the honourable member does what her colleagues do every day, so I suppose I should not be surprised, and that is to substitute her judgment for that of the experts. I have learned that it is always better to get another opinion than to get one from a member of the New Democratic Party.

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, accountants often say that consistency in financial reporting is as important as mathematical accuracy, but in this year's budget, consistency goes right out the window--

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Crescentwood, to pose his question.

Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, consistency has gone out the window in the presentation of this budget to obscure an absurd process of raiding a savings account to pay off a debt.

Can the Finance minister explain why on pages 22 and 23 he has changed the presentation from previous years to make a $100-million raid on the Fiscal Stabilization Fund look like current income from this year's revenues? And it is done so with a footnote that is about the same size as Progressive Conservative was on its election signs.

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Everybody seems to be able to understand this budget and the accounting treatment other than the member for Crescentwood. It is abundantly clear what we have done. We explained it in the budget; I explained it during the Budget Debate, during the budget speech. It has been assessed by all of the investment dealers, the experts in the field. It is very clear that we transferred $100 million from our Fiscal Stabilization Fund to offset the approximately $100 million in reduction from the federal government for health, education and support to families.

Obviously, we felt those are important areas of expenditure for government, and we made the decision in this budget year to transfer those funds from our Fiscal Stabilization Fund.

Madam Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.