PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS

PROPOSED RESOLUTIONS

Res. 13--Shutdown of AECL

Mr. Ben Sveinson (La Verendrye): Mr. Deputy Speaker, it is my pleasure to rise in the House today and introduce private members' Resolution 13.

I move, seconded by the honourable member for Morris (Mr. Pitura), that

WHEREAS the Whiteshell Research Laboratories of the Atomic Energy of Canada Ltd. is an important part of the scientific research activity taking place in Manitoba and western Canada; and

WHEREAS the Whiteshell Research Laboratories is home to many unique scientific facilities and projects; and

WHEREAS the Whiteshell Research facility provides a significant contribution to the economy of Manitoba and western Canada; and

WHEREAS the Whiteshell Research facility is a major employer in eastern Manitoba; and

WHEREAS the Atomic Energy of Canada Ltd. centre, in preparing its next budget, is considering the closure of its facilities in western Canada and their consolidation in Chalk River, Ontario; and

WHEREAS the Chalk River site is in need of much capital improvements, while the Whiteshell facility is far more modern with better infrastructure; and

WHEREAS the cost of doing business in Manitoba is now more competitive than other jurisdictions; and

WHEREAS crown institutions and facilities should have the opportunity to prove their value and worth to the taxpayer.

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba call upon the Atomic Energy of Canada Ltd. centre and the federal government to put forward their plans and options for the future of the facility, including the financial analysis on which their proposal is based; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba call upon Atomic Energy of Canada Ltd. and the federal government to provide a long-term and viable commitment to the Whiteshell Research Laboratories.

Motion presented.

Mr. Sveinson: Mr. Deputy Speaker, it is my pleasure to rise today and introduce this resolution. The urgency for this resolution has quite recently been underscored with the news that AECL has confirmed 20 engineers from a small reactor division will be moved to Toronto to begin work on two medical isotope reactors being constructed at the Crown company's Chalk River facility. This decision by AECL is shortsighted and flies in the face of an agreement from AECL to hold off all transfers and layoffs until after the task force has finished its work. Their reasoning that the agreement was to wait until after the report was released not until after the federal government had fully responded to it can be described as splitting hair. Unfortunately, the hairs they are splitting belong to the 1,800 residents of Pinawa.

Atomic Energy of Canada Ltd. is a federal Crown corporation which reports to Parliament through the Minister of Natural Resources. Its mission is to do research on nuclear energy and use the result to develop commercial operations. The company's objective is to secure maximum benefit for Canada from associated research and development of Candu reactor technology. The Whiteshell Laboratories, since its inception in 1963, has had a significant positive impact on both the local economy as well as the economy of Manitoba. AECL provides a grant to the local government district estimated at $800,000 a year, or 80 percent of its $1-million annual budget. It provides another $120,000 for the school system. The mayor of Pinawa, Lorne Swanson, has summed up his community's anxiety. We have no raw materials. We do not have an enormous market. We are limited in our options. We will keep looking to keep our options open, but I just do not know.

A review of the economic impact of AECL will emphasize its contribution. The 1990-91 total expenditures of AECL Whiteshell Laboratories were $91.5 million, $78.2 million of which was expended directly in Manitoba. Of this $78.2 million, $66.4 million is estimated to have stayed in this province in the form of $54.3 million in labour income and $12.1 million in commodity purchases supported by Manitoba's industry. The $78.2 million in Manitoba expenditure is estimated to have levered $98.7 million in additional spending in Manitoba for a gross production level of $176.9 million. This is a growth benefit to the Manitoba economy which can be further described as increasing by $2.26 for each $1 spent by AECL--a 1996 economic impact study by the Manitoba Bureau of Statistics reported Manitoba expenditures of $72 million by AECL in 1995--of those expenditures, 85.5 cents were spent in Manitoba itself.

Whiteshell Laboratories employs approximately 700 full-time and part-time employees in research and development. The facility has provided as many as 1,000 quality, state-of-the-art, high-technology jobs to Manitoba for 33 years. Our government recognized the importance of the Whiteshell Laboratories, and took a lead role last December when AECL's plan to close Whiteshell was leaked to the media. A task force composed of the Honourable Len Derkach, the Honourable Darren Praznik, the member for St. James (Ms. Mihychuk), the member for The Maples (Mr. Kowalski), the Pinawa mayor, Lorne Swanson, the reeve of the Rural Municipality of Lac du Bonnet and myself travelled to Ottawa to make the closure an issue and seek the intervention of the federal Natural Resources minister in this matter.

As part of our presentation, we asked for a fair opportunity for Whiteshell to compete for any work in a downsized AECL rather than have it all consolidated at the Chalk River site. Through the efforts of senior federal cabinet minister the Honourable Lloyd Axworthy the federal government appointed a task force under the leadership of Peter Siemens to investigate this situation and develop proposals for the survival of the Whiteshell Lab. Our government participated fully in this task force through our one provincial representative allowed, Mr. Stuart Duncan, Secretary to the Economic Development Board.

The result of these efforts, as I am sure we are all aware, was a task force report provided last June to the federal government, recommending that AECL set up a new and independent company to manage the site and to be responsible for transferring various AECL programs, activities and technologies to new entities or private-sector partners for the purpose of commercialization and eventually building a financial healthy site in Manitoba.

* (1640)

With respect to the provincial government involvement, the task force called for the province to have a role through its existing programs in working with these new companies and to help them grow. Our government has made it clear that we will not backfill federal reductions to Whiteshell Laboratories with direct provincial grants. However, the province will consider assistance in financing viable attempts and new commercial options through existing programs such as Grow Bonds and REDI as it would any commercial venture. Also, new companies may be eligible for unique provincial tax programs such as the manufacturing investment tax credit and research and development tax credit.

The difficulty with this situation, further illustrated by the recent announcement that 20 positions are to be moved to Chalk River, is that the federal government has failed to make Manitoba aware of the course of action they plan to take.

A serious concern our government and Manitobans have with the federal government and AECL is their lack of development and sharing of a long-term plan. The reasoning for this lack of planning is two-fold. Firstly, I understand that AECL is reluctant to give up several of its technologies and programs to a new company it would not have direct control over. Secondly, AECL has never made a provision in its current funding for either the closure of Whiteshell Laboratories or a transaction to a new company.

AECL's agreement of 1960 with the Province of Manitoba obligates AECL to pay an annual grant in lieu of taxes for Whiteshell Laboratories and the Pinawa town site. This agreement is still in effect today, and we continue to ensure this obligation is met. There exists a number of AECL facilities which are unique to Whiteshell Laboratories that cannot be feasibly transferred to Chalk River, and a total Whiteshell shutdown does not make any economic sense. These unique aspects include facilities actively involved with nuclear waste management hot cells, the RD-14 loop, a four-storey building that models the security system for Candu reactors and a new $1-million facility that would be on line this year for hydrogen research.

We all understand the importance of fiscal restraint, but our government has clearly demonstrated its willingness to work in a close and co-operative manner with the federal government to ensure the conclusion all members present desire. If AECL is actively reviewing plans to consolidate its operations, it must come forward and spell out the reasons in detail before any final decision is made, so the local, federal and provincial politicians can scrutinize the reasons and offer rebuttal.

The federal government must also address the regional, economic and social impacts and a loss of scientific infrastructure in Manitoba as a result of the closure and decommissioning of the facility. The federal government has made it abundantly apparent that any decision on the future of Whiteshell Laboratories is theirs and theirs alone. The Honourable Lloyd Axworthy stated unequivocally: Let us get this straight. The future of Whiteshell Laboratories will be determined by the federal government, not by AECL. It is a cabinet decision.

Further to this, Provencher M.P. Dave Iftody stated this: To shut down Whiteshell Laboratories is not a recommendation of the Liberal government. This was contrived by the senior bureaucrats at AECL.

(Mr. Gerry McAlpine, Acting Speaker, in the Chair)

It is therefore necessary that the Liberal caucus impress upon their counterparts in Ottawa the value of Whiteshell Laboratories to Manitobans. I also appreciate the comments by the member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale) who acknowledged his party's previous lack of attention to the Whiteshell Laboratories when he stated: I think AECL languished under more or less all provincial governments.

This resolution will ensure that the issue of Whiteshell Laboratories does not languish, that it will be brought to the forefront of discussion in Manitoba and in Ottawa. I want to make it clear to the federal Liberal government that the AECL site is a federal responsibility, including all liabilities associated with the site. Our government and Manitobans are willing to work in concert with the federal government to find an appropriate solution, but we insist on full access to information, information that AECL to date has provided in a limited manner.

Our government believes that Manitoba Whiteshell Laboratories can be part of the solution to secure an economic future for AECL. We have extended an invitation to AECL and the federal government to work together in an open, consultative process to ensure the maintenance of the essential operations of AECL in Manitoba and to identify and pursue promising new opportunities for the industry in Manitoba. This resolution allows all members the opportunity to demonstrate clearly to the residents of Pinawa and the federal government that we recognize the irreplaceable role of the Whiteshell Labs as a centre for scientific research in Manitoba as well as the sizeable economic impact of this facility.

So I encourage all members present to support this Resolution No. 13 and call upon AECL and the federal government to provide a long-term and viable commitment to the Whiteshell Laboratories. Thank you, Mr. Acting Speaker.

Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St. James): I take this opportunity to rise on the resolution in regard to the Whiteshell Research Laboratory, and it is with some personal commitment that I rise to make comments as I was a member of the very short-lived all-party task force that went out to Ottawa on a trip to appeal for the jobs and the technology that we have in Manitoba. The Minister of Energy (Mr. Praznik) led the delegation. We did attend, went to Ottawa, made the appeal for Manitoba and got what then seemed like a very tenuous commitment from the federal Liberal government, and unfortunately we have seen those concerns come forward. The loss of jobs at Pinawa is serious and we have seen people leave. A number of scientists are choosing to move into Ontario and we are seeing what is commonly known as a brain drain from our community in eastern Manitoba, which is extremely unfortunate.

AECL is a top-of-the-line scientific research facility. It has been in operation since 1963 and provided over a thousand jobs. It is not the situation today. In fact, it is rather curious that the beginnings of the cuts to AECL actually happened when the Minister of Energy (Mr. Praznik) was the executive assistant for the then Energy minister Jake Epp. That is when the jobs started to flee, and we have seen the continuation of that process.

Point of Order

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Energy and Mines): Mr. Acting Speaker, on a point of order, I know our colleague for St. James (Ms. Mihychuk) would never want to be inaccurate in her information. I think it is worth pointing out at this time, in the interests of accuracy, that when I served as a special assistant to the Honourable Jake Epp, it was during his tenure as Minister of National Health and Welfare, and that I left his employ after I was elected--or before I ran for this Legislature in 1988. He did not become Minister of Energy and Mines until some time after, and that is when he assumed responsibility for AECL.

I know the member would want to ensure her statements are accurate on the record of this House.

(Mr. Marcel Laurendeau, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair)

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The honourable minister did not have a point of order. It is clearly a dispute over the facts.

* * *

* (1650)

Ms. Mihychuk: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I do want the record to reflect what is accurate. I do want to clarify that the now Energy minister was actually working for the Department of Health, where we saw the health cuts occurring, and by coincidence we saw the cuts at AECL as well.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, the fact is that when we look at the legacy of both the Conservative and the federal Liberal government, it does not stand proud for Manitoba. We have seen the loss of jobs from the Whiteshell Labs and from Pinawa. It is hurting that community, and it is hurting our economy. The economic benefits of the Whiteshell Labs in the Pinawa area are estimated at approximately $100 million to Manitoba annually. That is a very significant contribution to our economic well-being.

Manitoba, it is interesting to note, receives approximately 50 percent of its federal science and technology funding through the Whiteshell Labs, and given the federal government's proposal, what looks like an inevitable movement towards moving a lot of our research and development to Ontario, that would mean that Manitoba would have the lowest investment by the federal government in science and technology, a situation that is not tolerable to the people of Manitoba and is unfair to Manitobans.

When you look at the federal contribution, Manitoba would then be in the worst situation in Canada, and, again, we ask for a commitment that is not only rhetoric, not only the pretense of a task force that do not follow-up, the pretense of going to do something actually practical but no interim funding. It is going to take more than a hearing to the public, and we had some wonderful submissions.

I had the opportunity to go out to the Whiteshell Labs and to Pinawa to hear submissions to the task force. I had the opportunity to visit the public presentations of the task force and to review the options that were presented, many of them creative. Many seemed practical but not to be developed without a certain amount of commitment, that the federal government, the minimum that they can do is provide that incentive to ensure that we are treated fairly like the rest of Canada.

In fact, Mr. Deputy Speaker, our caucus was recently out to the Whiteshell Laboratories in September where we toured the aboveground facilities and talked to many of the scientists there at the lab. This is not the first time that we have been out. We have been out numerous times. In fact, over two years ago, the NDP, through our Leader, requested an all-party committee to look at the developing of a viable future for this facility. This was well before the last election, well before the recent announcement, the short-term announcement that this was going to be in crisis. I mean, it was clearly obvious to this side of the House that indeed the Whiteshell Labs were in a crisis situation two-and-a-half years ago. We requested an all-party committee and it did not happen.

What we did get though from the Minister of Energy was a short-term solution, a so-called all-party task force where three members did go to Ottawa but, unfortunately, there was no follow-up. We have not met since. We have not consulted, and we have not taken further action. Whose fault is that? Clearly, there is a responsibility on the part of the minister to maintain and ensure that that task force, so-called task force, has meaning and can play an important role in preserving the life of Pinawa and the Whiteshell Labs.

So since our trip out to Ottawa where we did get some waffling, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we got some--we got this task force, and we got a commitment from the federal Liberals to look at options, but looking at options and then following through is typical of the Liberal policy and typical of the red book. It is full of good ideas, but they do not implement the darn things. It is not only the federal Liberals who have a role here and a responsibility to ensure that the Whiteshell Labs and Pinawa remain strong and growing. In fact, what we have seen from this government, from our provincial government, is virtually nothing. We have not seen a commitment from this government. We have not seen anything but one trip to Ottawa. We have not seen the continuation of the task force. We have not seen a commitment by this government for perhaps interim funding. In fact, let me go to the resolution passed by the R.M. of Lac du Bonnet, May 31, 1996, where they are--and I put on the record--

WHEREAS ACL has decided to phase out and eventually close down the Whiteshell Labs in Pinawa, effectively eliminating approximately 800 very important jobs, thus creating immeasurable hardships for the people in our area; and

WHEREAS our Manitoba provincial economy now stands to lose an estimated $100 million in economic benefits because of this massive cut; and

WHEREAS a very few years ago our provincial government set a precedent in wisely deciding to assist the residents of Pine Falls in assuming ownership of their paper mill by setting aside a large sum of money to help in this transition.

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the council of the R.M. of Lac du Bonnet request in the strongest possible terms that our provincial government now redirect some of this money and now do the same for the people of Pinawa and surrounding areas by offering financial assistance to the Whiteshell task force, NUCO, during the transition period that will take place when private enterprises and businesses take over this facility.

FURTHER BE IT RESOLVED that the members of the council of the Rural Municipality of Lac du Bonnet express their heartfelt thanks and appreciation to Mr. Peter Siemens and the Whiteshell task force and the Whiteshell support group and the many others who have dedicated long hours of hard work to see all of this hopefully come to a successful conclusion; and

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that our MLA, Honourable Darren Praznik, be immediately advised of this resolution, so he can convey to his colleagues and caucus the urgency of our situation.

Well, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that clearly articulates the position of the R.M. of Lac du Bonnet and we, too, are concerned. We are asking, what is the commitment of the provincial government? What are they substantially going to do to save the Whiteshell Labs to look at long, sustainable alternatives for a very important sector of our community? We ask the provincial government to now say where they are going with the commitment to Pinawa and Whiteshell.

Mr. Praznik: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am rising today on what is a serious resolution, one that requires, I believe, a strong, forceful and I think accurate portrayal of the facts from all members of this House. We are talking about the saving of a very significant piece of the scientific infrastructure of this province, and what we have heard from the member for St. James (Ms. Mihychuk) is all I can describe as probably one of the worst accounts and one of the most partisan bits of dribble in this Legislature on an important serious issue. In fact, her comments remind me of someone who has tried to kill something for many years, and then as the patient is dying away, comes and says how I really want to save you.

I should remind the member for St. James that her federal colleague, Mr. Blaikie, a Manitoba member of Parliament, spearheaded a resolution in the House of Commons that would have effectively shut down all of AECL and Whiteshell if it had ever become the policy of the Government of Canada. I would remind her that, when her party was in power and the lease on the underground research lab came up for renewal, her government delayed and delayed and delayed signing that lease, renewing that lease, until finally the candidate for their party in the Lac du Bonnet constituency, Mr. Clarence Baker, had to almost threaten to resign his candidacy to force their government to renew the lease.

If she does not believe me, she should talk to the former Minister of Natural Resources in that New Democratic government, the former MLA for Lac du Bonnet, whose association with the party, one of the reasons he left that party was because of their lack of support for that facility while they were in power.

* (1700)

Today for her to get up and criticize us or even the federal Liberal government in Ottawa is absolute hypocrisy and, quite frankly, we do not need that kind of contribution to any debate. Now, the member may smile across the way, but there are 700 people in my constituency and who live in other constituencies including the city of Winnipeg who work for that institution whose lives are on the line and all she can do is make partisan comments. All she can do is sum up and say we are a great saviour. We New Democrats called for a task force. If the New Democrats had had their way year after year through the '80s, they would have shut the place down. Did she take to her federal colleagues in Ottawa a statement to have them reverse their position on nuclear energy or AECL? Where was that? Nowhere, nowhere to be seen because, quite frankly, the member for St. James (Ms. Mihychuk) wants to do a nice little bit of politics in the House today and, like her colleagues, could care less about the future of Pinawa. That has been proven time and time again.

I do not always agree with members of the Liberal Party, and I am concerned about what our federal Liberals are doing, but I will tell you, I have not seen that kind of partisan contribution to the kind of unified front we need from our Liberal colleagues. They have at least risen to the occasion to be part of this effort to save something for Manitoba without looking like hypocrites, as the member for St. James has done in the speech today.

The member for St. James reads the resolution of the R.M. of Lac du Bonnet. Did she also read the resolution of the R.M. who opposed a demonstration site for a research facility for storage? No, she did not raise that. The R.M. of Lac du Bonnet has two very conflicting views on the record. She did not raise that. She talked about Pine Falls and the contribution. She said, where is the provincial money in this particular cause? I ask her, how much, and for what purpose?

Now, I am told by one of the community development people who attended some of the NDP visits in that particular area when they were out in my constituency that members of their caucus, and it may have been the member for St. James, stated very clearly to them privately that if the NDP were in power they would not be putting any money into it either, not with what is happening in health care and education, that they would have no financial contribution. So for her to stand up in this House today and say, where is your money, you should be putting money into this, when her own colleagues, if not herself, in Pinawa left a different--

* * *

Point of Order

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for St. James, on a point of order.

Ms. Mihychuk: I appreciate the minister's passion. However, I would like to clarify that it was not myself at any tour that he is presumably quoting, and I would appreciate if he would use caution when alleging that members were making statements. I was there, and I would ask that the minister put on the record the truth and what he understands to be the truth.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for St. James did not have a point of order. It is clearly a dispute over the facts.

* * *

Mr. Praznik: Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Now, I will tell you, I am going to be delighted to send the Hansard of the member's comments back to the individual who informed me, who on a first-hand basis has that remark, and we will see if the member--because I tell you, I would believe my constituent any day over the members opposite on this matter.

The bottom line here, the bottom line in this whole thing is, we, last year, when the federal government and AECL were in the process of shutting this thing down and did not have the common courtesy to inform anyone--we all found out because of a leaked story through the Free Press--we went down on an all-party basis, we lobbied in Ottawa, we achieved at least enough political pressure to have the federal government create a task force. The province was invited to have one representative on that task force, and we did in Mr. Stu Duncan. We concurred wholeheartedly with the appointment of Mr. Peter Siemens as chair of that task force. We worked very closely with that task force.

On three occasions we requested that that task force secure from us the financial information from AECL as to their comparative costs of operation in Manitoba versus Chalk River and in no time was that information provided to us. The closest we got was, they do not keep that kind of record. Well, that is, in my mind, unbelievable. Besides the point, Mr. Siemens and his task force managed to work through the issues and come up with what we believe to be a very viable plan to save a significant portion of the operation there and give it a future. Quite frankly, seeing the kind of state of operation of AECL, getting out of that company is probably an excellent thing for the Whiteshell.

That report was filed in June. Everybody realized that Ministers Axworthy and Gerrard and the federal Liberal cabinet had been handed a situation from AECL that they had not been prepared for. AECL, either to close the site or do a transition, had never counted in its budget for that money, and they had to dump that issue onto the federal Treasury Board. So, in fairness to the federal ministers from Manitoba and the federal Minister of Natural Resources, they needed time to figure out what they were going to do. We gave them July, we gave them August and we gave them September. Every signal that they sent indicated to us that they would have a decision by the end of September. That time has now passed, and now it is time again to put the question very seriously to them, what is their response to that task force? Will they accept it? Will they order AECL to transfer, not just buildings and assets, but transfer the intellectual capability, the intellectual property, which is essential to success?

Now it is time to take that forward, and we have indicated time and time again that the province of Manitoba will be there with the kind of financial support and programs we have to grow the new companies. If the members now are indicating that we should be there with some kind of blank cheque, which is different from what they said in Pinawa, from what I understand, but if we are to provide some blank cheque, for how much, for what purpose? Until we know what the federal government is going to do, what their plans are, then there is nothing to negotiate but a blank cheque. Everyone who understands this issue knows that, and it is of concern to all of us, as Manitobans, to ensure that decision is made quickly because every minute that passes, every day that passes, we are losing the intellectual capabilities that make this thing happen.

The larger issue for Canadians is, how does AECL run? They transferred the treasury division from Pinawa to Ontario. Only one person to date has accepted the transfer. Now they are flying people out to train new people in Ontario. Someone should really ask that question in our federal Parliament from the opposition benches about how this corporation is run, but beside the point, the time has now come where we must have an answer from the federal government. No answer is an answer in itself, but I am still hopeful. Minister Axworthy, being in Lac du Bonnet, made the point very strongly, that the decision rests with the federal cabinet and not with AECL, and now it is time to have that answer.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, I can tell you that in the next few days I expect you will see more activity and action on this particular area. We are in a very crucial time. I think we have only a matter of weeks to see this decision made so that people can get on hopefully with a positive decision, and we as a province, we are ready to be there once that decision is made.

The member for St. James (Ms. Mihychuk), in listening to her remarks today, tells me firstly that she does not really understand the intricacies of this issue, and secondly, all she is looking to do is try to score a few points, but it sounds to me and to those who know this issue like almost a death-bed support because, when AECL has needed the support of Manitobans in the past, the New Democrats have not been there. They have not been there one bit. For them to stand here today is sheer hypocrisy, and today, when they need that united front, all the member for St. James can do is paint some kind of picture that has no resemblance to reality. That is really a shame. It is really a shame that they would take that view when Manitobans require all of us to be pushing on this issue and playing with the facts.

I want to thank my colleagues in the provincial Liberal Party because it is difficult to take on federal colleagues from time to time, particularly a very strong national government in terms of their numbers, but they have been there to support us on these issues, and they, I know, would not take that kind of stand to turn this into some kind of issue and be hypocrites, as our colleague the member for St. James has proven in this debate. So, on behalf of my constituents, I want to thank those members of the opposition who do come to this with sincerity to achieve the job, because it is that kind of effort that is required, and I hope this House will demonstrate its support by passing this resolution today. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

* (1710)

Ms. Becky Barrett (Wellington): I will put some few remarks on the record on the private member's Resolution 13 dealing with AECL.

Again, as my colleague from St. James has said, we do not have a problem with the concept behind this resolution. It is an important part of our fabric as a province. It does provide or has provided for 30 years up to a thousand very well paid, very highly skilled jobs in the eastern part of the province of Manitoba. No one wants to see that brain drain occur. No one wants to see that. The member for St. James (Ms. Mihychuk) said that as well, and I would like to call the member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Praznik) to order. He should not talk about hypocrisy as a member of the government. He has no call to talk about hypocrisy on any issue.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, I find it interesting, when I read this resolution, I was reading it in a broader context perhaps than just the narrow concern about AECL, and I do not mean narrow in the sense of unimportant. I want to be very clear on that, because members opposite have a penchant for saying one thing and meaning another when they talk about accountability and really are talking about antidemocratic action. I do not mean narrow in the sense of unimportant, because AECL is very important to the province of Manitoba. It is very important to the people of eastern Manitoba. It has been a part of our heritage for almost 30 years, as I stated.

However, when I read this, and it talks about where the Whiteshell Research facility is an important part of the research activity taking place in Manitoba and western Canada, when it is a facility that provides a significant contribution to the economy of Manitoba, when it is a major employer, guess what parallel occurred to me? The Wheat Board. The Canadian Wheat Board is also those things, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

So in addition to supporting AECL for the reasons that have been stated in this resolution, reasons that we agree with, Mr. Deputy Speaker, reasons that we are on record as agreeing with, the member for Lac du Bonnet aside, where is the provincial government on the issue of the Canadian Wheat Board, which also is an important part of the scientific community in Manitoba and western Canada, which also provides a significant contribution to the economy of Manitoba and is also a major employer. The Canadian Wheat Board employs maybe not a thousand, but 500 people in the city of Winnipeg.

When the world at large is asked about Manitoba, what do they know about the province of Manitoba? One of the things that they talk about is, they talk about the Royal Winnipeg Ballet. They used to talk about the Winnipeg Jets, the Phoenix Coyotes, Mr. Shenkarow's pet project, and the Winnipeg Jets, whose highest paid civil servant, or we assume he is the highest civil servant, because we cannot get the government to be open and accountable as to exactly what Mr. Shenkarow got paid by the taxpayers of Manitoba, but I digress, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

The Canadian Wheat Board is one of those elements that people outside the province of Manitoba, people outside the country of Canada, people across the world know about the Canadian Wheat Board. It is one of those things that is seen by countries across the world as a defining feature of Canada and Manitoba. Now, the Canadian Wheat Board, again, is a major player in the province of Manitoba, and while it is important that we have support for the continuation in some form or another of AECL it is also important, we feel, that this government not be hypocritical and narrow in its focus and do the same thing in a private member's resolution--

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. If the honourable member for River Heights (Mr. Radcliffe) and the member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton) want to have a discussion, I would ask them to do so in the loge. I am having difficulty hearing the member for Wellington.

The honourable member for Wellington, to continue.

Ms. Barrett: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I appreciate your intervention, but as one who has been called to order on more than one occasion myself, I can understand how these things happen.

However, where was I? Yes, we have a world-class facility here in Manitoba in AECL. We also have a world-class facility here in Manitoba in the Canadian Wheat Board. Where is the private member resolution on the Canadian Wheat Board on the importance of single-desk selling, on the importance of retaining the elements, the elementary part of the Canadian Wheat Board? It is nowhere to be found. Yes, we can talk about AECL, and I will return to AECL regularly, Mr. Deputy Speaker, but I just find it a bit hypocritical that the government is picking, it cherry-picks, the issues on which it wishes to be supportive and beat its breast about maintaining a support for an organization in the province.

We are not only in danger of losing AECL and the money that represents to the province of Manitoba, the people that that represents to the province of Manitoba, and the energy and the vitality that represents to Manitoba, we are also, Mr. Deputy Speaker, in danger of losing probably to the same, well, parallel kinds of people and energy and money and vitality if this government does not get off the fence and support the Canadian Wheat Board.

I find it also interesting that the last WHEREAS, again, I was struck by this: WHEREAS Crown institutions and facilities should have the opportunity to prove their value and worth to the taxpayer. Oh, my goodness, Mr. Deputy Speaker, this is unbelievable. This from a government whose Leader just prior to the last election, whose Leader prior to the 1990 election, stated in a single declarative sentence: We are not selling the Manitoba Telephone System.

An Honourable Member: Read my lips.

Ms. Barrett: Read my lips. That is a simple declarative sentence. Well, not quite as simple as it could be, but it is close to as simple as it could be.

An Honourable Member: Did he not also say trust me on health care?

Ms. Barrett: As my honourable friend said, he also said trust me on health care.

Well, Mr. Deputy Speaker, this is another case where in the context of AECL this government can put in place a statement that talks about the utility of Crown facilities and institutions in the context of AECL. Where has it been with MTS? Where is it going to be with Manitoba Hydro? How can we take credence? How can we assume that this government has any credibility when it comes to an issue as important as AECL when they have done, at the very best, nothing when it comes to Crown corporations and, at the worst, they have gutted them.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, we would like to ask the government to, again, have a private member's resolution supporting the Manitoba Telephone System responsive to the statements made by the Premier (Mr. Filmon) over the last six years, statements that were very unequivocal that the Manitoba Telephone System was not for sale. Well, the Manitoba Telephone System is for sale. If the Wheat Board goes down, it will be as a direct result of this government's inaction on the part of the farmers of western Canada, inaction which will have the impact--

* (1720)

Point of Order

Mr. Gerry McAlpine (Sturgeon Creek): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I do not know what relevance the talking about the reference to the Wheat Board this has with the resolution of AECL, and I would ask you to bring the member to order and to deal with the resolution and speak to the resolution, rather than wandering off as she is doing.

Ms. Barrett: On the same point of order, I am speaking directly to the final WHEREAS of the resolution. The final WHEREAS of the resolution does not have the acronym AECL anywhere in it. I have been referring back to AECL in virtually every sentence of my speech, and I am drawing comparisons. I do not believe that the member has a point of order, and that I am well within my bounds in my remarks.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Sturgeon Creek did not have a point of order. I was listening very carefully to the member and she has been referring to the resolution.

* * *

Ms. Barrett: I will end my remarks by saying that, as I began my remarks on this resolution, we understand and recognize the problems that are faced by the people of Pinawa, by the province of Manitoba, as it tries to deal with an arrogant and uncaring federal government. I think the problems that the people of Manitoba face dealing with an arrogant, uncaring, antidemocratic provincial government are reflected one level higher in the federal government's inaction and uncaringness about this concern.

With those remarks, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I will conclude.

Mr. Neil Gaudry (St. Boniface): Mr. Deputy Speaker, it gives me a great pleasure to rise on this resolution here--[interjection] Yes, why not? I mean we are working together here for the benefits of Manitobans, whether it is fed bashing or not. I think it is important that we should pass it today so that we work together. But I think the hypocrisy of the NDP here this afternoon when we look at what they did when they were in power, they wanted to shut it down. It was sustained by the Liberals and the Tories when they were in power.

I think it is very important for Manitobans today that we work together to make sure that this plant in Pinawa remains as such for the benefits of the employees and for the town of Pinawa and that we work and contact the federal government to see that we have a long-term plan for this plant in Pinawa. Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): Mr. Deputy Speaker, it is my pleasure to rise to add my comments to this resolution. I have had the opportunity to travel to the communities of Pinawa and Lac du Bonnet over the course of the last year and a half. It was just a matter of a couple of months ago was my last opportunity to go to that region of our province and, in fact, I had the opportunity to take a tour of the AECL facilities. I was much impressed by what I saw and heard in our discussions with the employees of that operation and of the management of that facility. I, along with other members of my caucus, have been to this community a number of times over the course of the last 12 or 13 months, talking with the employees, with the people of the community that are very concerned about their future, the future of this facility, not only in Manitoba but in that part of the province, and what it means to the economy of the province of Manitoba.

In talking with the plant management, we find that they had--well, I see the introducer of this resolution references to the fact that perhaps he wants me to hurry up, and he does not want to hear what I have to say on this resolution. It is unfortunate. I thought he might be interested that I would want to, in some way, show my support for what he was trying to do by way of this resolution, and he does not want to hear my comments, Mr. Deputy Speaker, which is unfortunate. He wants me to speed up this process.

Point of Order

Mr. Sveinson: On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I would just like the honourable member for Transcona (Mr. Reid) to know that I do love his support on this resolution, and I am just a little excited to get this resolution passed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member did not have a point of order.

* * *

Mr. Reid: I just wanted to relate, for the information of the members opposite, because I know my colleagues and I have had the opportunity to travel to AECL and talk with the people there, what I learned, Mr. Deputy Speaker, is that this is a world-class facility. There is no doubt in my mind, although I do not have a lot of experience in touring other facilities of this nature, but just talking with the employees there, they are very proud of the work that they do in the research area. If you take a look at the facilities, although it has been downgraded in many ways by the federal government, which is a shame in itself--and I think that there are significant opportunities that both the federal and provincial governments are missing by way of opportunities for the communities of Lac du Bonnet and Pinawa and for the AECL facility.

I think back to the comments that were made in discussions that we had with the employees there and with the management of that facility, and I think of the discussions that we have had in our caucus with respect to opportunities for AECL, because we have talked about this, what we would like to see and where we think it should be going in our province. Listening to the comments that were made by the Minister of Northern Affairs (Mr. Praznik) here, who happens, I believe, to represent at least a portion of that area and the planned facilities, he and his government are missing a significant opportunity. The federal government has struck a task force to look at opportunities to expand or to sell off portions of the facility. And what is this provincial government doing? They are not even getting involved in the marketing aspect of this facility itself. They are missing an opportunity to jump on board with our caucus and with the federal government to try and market this facility to other businesses in the world, to try and get somebody to come in there.

So for this minister to stand up and say he has interest in retaining the facility, he is missing the most important part. The minister says we do not own it as a people. Mr. Deputy Speaker, the government references, for the fourth time this month, the CN facility opening up the customer call centre here. For the fourth time, they raised that. We do not own that either, but we encouraged the jobs to come here. So how can the government say, because we do not own the facility, that they do not want to get involved in the marketing aspect. To me, that is nonsense on the government's part. You have to get involved if you truly believe in your own words, get involved in the marketing aspect of that facility, get involved and try and bring opportunities to that community and to that part of the province of Manitoba. Do not just sit back and criticize the federal government here, as you are attempting to do. Get out there with the Industry, Trade and Tourism department--

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. I would ask all honourable members to tone it down. I know we have had a long day, but I would ask the honourable member to put his questions to the Chair, or his debate to the Chair. I think it might help the decorum just a little bit.

Mr. Reid: Through you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, to the government. It is very important that the government recognize they have a responsibility beyond just words, that they can get involved through the Industry, Trade and Tourism department that they have as a part of their government operations and look at and be directly involved in the marketing of those facilities to bring other opportunities to AECL, so that when the federal government, when the final curtain comes down on that facility as a nuclear research facility, that we have other opportunities to invest in, like hydrogen research.

Why can we not look at the utilization of hydrogen as a fuel? We have an abundance of hydroelectric power in the province of Manitoba. Northern States Power sale is coming back to us in the year 2000. Use that and start the groundwork on that now. That is just one of many ideas, I am sure, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that is available to the government. I am sure they have the technical people in their departments--

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. When this matter is again before the House, the honourable member for Transcona will have nine minutes remaining.

The hour now being 5:30 p.m., this House is now adjourned and stands adjourned until 1:30 p.m. tomorrow (Thursday). Have a great evening.