Speaker's Ruling

Madam Speaker: The opposition House leader (Mr. Ashton) on May 15, 1996, raised a point of order which I took under advisement in order to check Hansard. In raising his point of order the opposition House leader stated that the Minister of Education (Mrs. McIntosh) from her seat said that the NDP MLAs supported attempted murderers. In examining the Hansard transcript of May 15, I find that it shows an honourable member saying: “I never said . . . I said attempted murder.”

I listened to the tapes of the proceedings on several occasions, and I was unable to make out any comments of the Minister of Education other than what appears in Hansard.

Beauchesne Citation 486.(4) instructs us that “Remarks which do not appear on the public record and are therefore private conversations not heard by the Chair do not invite the intervention of the Speaker.” However, I know that past Manitoba Speakers have undertaken to review audio tapes to see if comments made by a member while not in possession of the floor can be heard. As I indicated earlier, I could not hear any comments made by the honourable Minister of Education along the line of what the opposition House leader referenced in his point of order. Therefore, I must rule that there was no point of order.

I would at this time again remind all members that debate of issues and questions takes place when members have legitimate possession of the floor. A certain degree of heckling is also a part of our history and practice, but I am quite sure that all members will agree that the events of May 14 and 15 were not this House's finest hours, and I would encourage members on both sides of the Chamber to exercise caution in the language they use in exchanges across the floor so that a recurrence of May 14 and 15 does not happen.

Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader): I challenge your ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The ruling of the Chair has been challenged.

Voice Vote

Madam Speaker: All those in favour of sustaining the ruling of the Chair, please say yea.

Some Honourable Members: Yea.

Madam Speaker: All those opposed, please say nay.

Some Honourable Members: Nay.

Madam Speaker: In my opinion, the Yeas have it.

Formal Vote

Mr. Ashton: Yeas and Nays, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A recorded vote has been requested. Call in the members.

Order, please. The motion before the Chamber is, shall the ruling of the Chair be sustained?

Division

A RECORDED VOTE was taken, the result being as follows:

Yeas

Cummings, Downey, Driedger, Dyck, Enns, Ernst, Findlay, Gilleshammer, Helwer, Laurendeau, Lamoureux, McAlpine, McCrae, McIntosh, Mitchelson, Newman, Pallister, Penner, Pitura, Praznik, Radcliffe, Reimer, Render, Rocan, Sveinson, Toews, Tweed, Vodrey.

Nays

Ashton, Barrett, Chomiak, Dewar, Doer, Evans (Brandon East), Evans (Interlake), Friesen, Hickes, Mackintosh, Maloway, Martindale, McGifford, Mihychuk, Reid, Sale, Santos, Struthers, Wowchuk.

Mr. Clerk (William Remnant): Yeas 28, Nays 19.

Mr. Gary Kowalski (The Maples): I was paired with the Minister of Rural Development (Mr. Derkach), as my colleague the member for St. Boniface (Mr. Gaudry) was paired with the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson). If I had an opportunity to vote, I would have voted in support of the Speaker's ruling.