ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

Trade Deficit--U.S.

Statistics

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Mr. Speaker, I have asked in previous years about the deficit-of-trade situation with the United States. In previous questions I have asked the government, they have indicated to me that they expected to see a much more positive situation in terms of our balance of trade or deficit of trade with the United States.

We were certainly hoping that with the lower dollar one of the benefits of that lower dollar would be, of course, on the one hand increased exports to the United States, which we have certainly seen, but a decrease in the imports to Canada in terms of our trade situation.

The federal government and the federal Canadian deficit of trade has produced an increase or an improved surplus of trade with the United States. In fact, the surplus of trade in 1994 has gone up by 18 percent.

I would like to ask the Premier of this province why our situation remains a deficit of trade with the United States, and why that deficit of trade has decreased by some 12 percent to a record high of $1.28 billion.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, I find it really interesting that the Leader of the Opposition always, in his doom-and-gloom scenario, looks for the darkest cloud that he can find to try and make a point.

The fact of the matter is that we have had the largest increase in exports to the United States of any province in Canada this past year--a 32-percent increase. In fact, we have narrowed the gap of the trade balance with the United States. Our imports from the United States have not increased as rapidly as our exports to the United States, so we are in a far better position today than we were a year ago in both respects. We have narrowed the balance-of-trade gap, and at the same time we have increased exports substantially at the highest level of any province in Canada.

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Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, the lower dollar is producing some excellent exports to the United States from Manitoba. Hydroelectricity, with the Limestone agreement, has gone up again in producing something over $280 million in trade. The machinery is improved, cereal goods, other oilseed products, other products, the forestry products. The lower dollar has helped us and has been good. It has been good for Canada that it has produced a surplus-of-trade improvement of about 18 percent.

Why, with the lower dollar, in the last four years but particularly between '93 and '94, has our balance of trade gone to a deficit of trade of $1.14 billion in '93 to $1.28 billion, a decrease of 12 percent, while Canada is improving? We all know that a deficit of trade with a jurisdiction gives us a deficit of jobs, and we all want jobs in this province.

Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, what the member is not even aware of--he looks for blind figures that he can try and turn into something negative--there has been a substantial increase in the importation of production equipment here because our manufacturing sector is booming like it has never boomed before. Our manufacturing sector: increases in production, increases in exports, investment growth has been amongst the best in Canada. That is resulting in production equipment being brought in here to create jobs and long-term opportunities.

I repeat for him, the situation is substantially better. The exports have increased more than the imports have on a year-over-year basis, and most of the import increase has been in that area of production equipment which is going to establish more manufacturing, more jobs in Manitoba.

Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, the Canadian trade situation with the United States is producing increased surpluses of trade. The Manitoba situation, with the same Canadian dollar, is producing higher deficits of trades in this province. I would think that the Premier would have some concern about this issue and what its impact is on jobs.

We have had improvement on international trade. The government cites exports always in their budget. They do not cite imports. On the international trade, the world trade, which includes the United States trade, we have seen an improvement, but we are still running today, in 1994, a $540-million deficit of trade, whereas in 1988 when the government came to office there was a surplus of trade of some $42 million.

I would like to ask the government: Why have we gone in the opposite direction on our international deficit of trade, why are we going in the opposite direction of Canada and what impact is it having on job opportunities for our province and for our future?

Mr. Filmon: Let us compare apples to apples. When that bunch across the way, the New Democrats, were in office in 1985--

Mr. Doer: I said '88.

Mr. Filmon: We will take it all the way through. Our figures are better than every year that you were in office. Let us take the figures in 1985 or 1986. Manitoba's exports to the United States represented half the level of imports. There were 53 percent one year, 52 percent the next year in '85 and '86 under that government. Today they are running at 72 percent. They are gaining substantially. Our exports continue to gain faster than our imports do, and we are in a better position vis-à-vis our balance of trade with the United States than we ever have been.

I would just ask the member opposite to try and look a little positively from time to time. Stop being the master of gloom and doom and once in a while look at all the good things that are happening in Manitoba.

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Property Taxes

Education Levy

Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): Mr. Speaker, if we had a cynicism meter in this province, it would have reached an all-time high with the daily statements of this government, particularly in the area of education.

We have had cuts of 4.3 percent, that is $35 million. We have seen what we call the Gary Filmon tax, the local property taxes for education, increase as much as 90 percent, since this government was elected, in School Division No. 1; 85 percent in the Assiniboia Division. We are seeing property tax increases this year ranging from 2.9 percent to 16.2 percent for school taxes because of the offloading of this government.

My question, Mr. Speaker, and I will use not my words but the words of another public figure. I would like to ask, and begin by saying, and this is a quote: I do not believe that it is going to be in the long-term interests of Manitobans to have a government who hides the manner in which it raises its taxes.

I would like to ask specifically to the Premier (Mr. Filmon): What is the government doing, I ask, to ensure that senior citizens, that people, the low-income earners, the low-income homeowners, can continue to live in his or her own home because of these kinds of tax increases?

Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister of Education and Training): Mr. Speaker, I gather the member is referring to property taxes that have been called upon to support Mystery Lake School Division's decision to increase taxes.

I want the member for Thompson to know that his school division has an operating expenditure per pupil of $6,324, which is significantly above the provincial average of $5,838. Also, Mr. Speaker, this is in spite of the fact the enrollment has decreased 1.3 percent. Also, the average salary in the member's school division is $50,137, far above the provincial average of $48,078. I could go on and on. I hope the member asks questions.

The main reason then that the taxes are going up on the ratepayer in Thompson are decisions that have been made locally, autonomously, within that school division.

Mr. Ashton: Mr. Speaker, it is interesting that the Premier (Mr. Filmon) did not answer because the quotes were his quotes, and, in fact, he is failing by his own definition, because they are offloading onto the property taxpayers of this province massively, with massive property tax increases.

I will ask the Premier again, because we are seeing just in the last few days, as school divisions finalize their budgets, just how much property taxes are increasing. Once again, how can he justify cutting public schools by $35 million, 4.3 percent over the past three years, something that is leading to major program cuts and property tax increases in this province?

Mr. Manness: Again, Mr. Speaker, some more facts as to what drives up the taxes within that particular school division. The '94-95 pupil-teacher ratio for regular instruction is 17.7 which is far below the provincial average of 18.7. These are the decisions that the elected individuals within the Thompson area have made, as they are legislated to do within the autonomy given to them.

Mr. Speaker, do not let the member stand here and blame tax increases that are fully the responsibility of that school division on this government. They are fully within the power and the legislative responsibility of the trustees elected within that school division.

Government of Manitoba

Spending Priorities

Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): It is interesting, Mr. Speaker, that they blame the federal government for offloading, but they accept no responsibility for offloading onto the school boards in this province. If they will not answer the question in terms of the cuts and the property tax increases, I will ask one final question on priorities.

I am wondering if the tax money of this province might be better spent on the public school system, rather than the massive government advertising and a $40,000 newspaper put out that has 14 pictures, or whatever number of pictures, from the Minister of Rural Development (Mr. Derkach).

What are the priorities, Mr. Speaker, shameless advertising or the school kids in this province?

Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister of Education and Training): Mr. Speaker, as we announced in the middle of January, $760 million has been directed to support of the public school system, more than $200 million than when we came into government eight budgets ago. Those facts are indisputable. Nobody can disagree with them. They are real.

Anybody who wants to come close to the subject of education, the issue is not funding, Mr. Speaker, because we are at the rank of the second or third highest on a per-pupil basis in Canada. We have an equalization model that distributes fairly the $760 million that I referenced. Because some school divisions decide to pay their teachers far in excess of the provincial average, that have pupil-teacher ratios that are far below the provincial average, that is a decision that is made locally. That is the way education has existed in this province for a number of years and continues to exist today.

Government of Manitoba

Advertising Guidelines

Mr. Paul Edwards (Leader of the Second Opposition): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance.

For close to a year now, both we and the opposition party have been asking the government to come forward with guidelines on the use of taxpayers' dollars for political advertising. We now learn that there has been, in that last year, $44,000 spent on these four newsletters. Just one of these, the most recent, includes 17 pictures of members of that caucus. Seven of those are of one member, the Minister of Rural Development (Mr. Derkach), but nevertheless, 17 pictures of people in that caucus in one newsletter costing $44,000.

My question for the Minister of Finance: What is the standard, given that this same government recently paid I believe over $1,000 to have the centre page of the Manitoba Sport Fishing Guide ripped out, which simply states--and no pictures of cabinet ministers--that there was a program initiated by the Honourable Dr. Jon Gerrard, occurred this year when we agreed to contract with the Government of Canada to operate in a pilot youth training project, Youth Service Canada was announced by the Honourable Lloyd Axworthy, et cetera. That is it. That is the total politicization. They spent over a thousand dollars ripping that out of the sport guide. What is the standard?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, this is an issue that the Leader of the second opposition party has asked before.

At the time I indicated to him that we were corresponding with all provincial governments in Canada, we were corresponding with the federal government. We have done just that. Not a single provincial government or the federal government have any guidelines so to speak in terms of how you deal with advertising on behalf of governments. We are continuing to work with those levels of government around the entire issue of formulating guidelines.

Mr. Speaker, I want to tell you that everything we have done would fall within any guidelines that would be established, because it is information being provided by the government to the taxpayers of this province. He makes a big issue of referring to pictures of the Minister of Rural Development in a rural development publication but obviously also includes dozens of pictures of individuals from throughout Manitoba, which is certainly not uncommon for a publication that deals with rural development issues.

Once again we will continue to work with other jurisdictions. To date there is not a single government, including the federal Liberal government, that has any guidelines in place for advertising. Everything we do would fall within any guidelines that would ultimately be established.

Mr. Edwards: Mr. Speaker, such is the political neurosis and hypocrisy of this government that they spent over a thousand dollars ripping out even a reference by an independent organization to a member of Parliament who does not happen to be in their party, yet they publish $44,000 worth of pictures of themselves.

My question for the Minister of Finance: Given that he said, June 3, 1994, in this House ". . . we will come forward with a position on the whole issue of appropriate guidelines and so on. So we are undertaking it. We take it very seriously."--where are those guidelines? That was nine months ago. Where are those guidelines?

Mr. Stefanson: Mr. Speaker, I think, unfortunately, the Leader of the second opposition party did not listen to my first answer, but we have worked with all other levels of government. In fact, the Provincial Auditor herself took the time and effort to attempt to get information on guidelines that would exist with other governments across Canada, and again, was unable to provide any significant information in that area because they do not exist.

The ultimate test is right here in this Chamber, where we can be asked questions about the kind of advertising. The ultimate test is with the people of Manitoba. We will continue to work with other levels of government around the whole issue of guidelines, but that is the ultimate test.

Everything that we have done is informing Manitobans about initiatives, about programs, about opportunities, whether it is Grow Bonds, whether it is Rural Economic Development Initiatives, whether it is Business Start, a whole series of initiatives, whether it is the Home Renovation Program, whether it is the new home purchase program.

The list goes on and on in terms of information that Manitobans should know, so that they can access programs and utilize those programs.

Mr. Edwards: Mr. Speaker, my final question is for the minister. He says the test is in this Legislature. The test is here, and we are apparently going to find out the test.

Can he tell us what the test is?--because, Mr. Speaker, I am a little confused when they spent over a thousand dollars to rip out a private advertisement that happens to mention Dr. Jon Gerrard or Lloyd Axworthy, yet at the same time spent $44,000 with 17 pictures of themselves.

Now, what is the test? Do you have to be a Conservative to get taxpayers' dollars? Is that the test?--because there does not appear to be any other credible explanation. What is it?

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Mr. Stefanson: This is an interesting line of questioning, Mr. Speaker, from the Leader of the Liberal Party. We all remember his utilization of the postage services in terms of the amount of money he spent sending out information to Manitobans.

I have outlined for him that we believe as a government that it is important that Manitobans know what governments are doing. We believe it is important that Manitobans know what programs are available, and, obviously, by informing Manitobans about Grow Bonds and REDI--and I know the Leader of the Liberal Party thinks that those are small potatoes, to quote him directly.

We do not think they are small potatoes. We think Manitobans should know about those initiatives, so that they can access Grow Bond programs right across our province, access Rural Economic Development Initiatives, access Business Start programs. I could go on and on about the information that Manitobans should have.

We believe in informing Manitobans. We will always inform Manitobans, unlike the kind of attitude we see from the second opposition party.

Capital Projects

SmartHealth

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Mr. Speaker, I think there might have been an oversight or some inaccuracies in this capital program that was tabled this afternoon by the minister insofar as he said the William Avenue project would be the largest capital.

From what I understand from the minister's own press release, the Royal Bank contract would be the largest capital project ever undertaken by the Department of Health, be it $100 million, $118 million or $150 million depending on which aspect of the minister's speech you take from.

Can the minister confirm whether or not the Royal Bank deal which will probably be the largest capital project in health history is in this capital plan, Mr. Speaker?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Initially, Mr. Speaker, I am tempted to remind the honourable member that it may be his imagination from which he withdraws the numbers he uses when he asks questions in this House, but the honourable member surely, even though he lacks the medical background of one Derry Decter in Brandon West that the honourable Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) royally insulted, his own Health critic of the last year and a half or more when he spoke as he did about Dr. Derry Decter in Brandon, but he will pay a price for that. [interjection] He knows something about health, unlike--that is right--the member for Kildonan, but the honourable member for Kildonan has been around long enough to know that arrangements like the one we have with SmartHealth do not form part of the capital budget of the province.

SmartHealth

Contract Tabling Request

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Mr. Speaker, if the minister would table the capital project for Health for next year, will the minister today table the contract which is almost as large as some of these capital projects or larger? Will he table the contract with Royal Bank that he has refused to do over and over again in this Chamber?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, the contract is being negotiated and as the honourable member knows, it is a contract that has many, many pieces, many, many parts, many, many modules to it. There are many, many go or no-go points. The honourable member just needs to be reminded one more time that our implementation committee composed of the many, many stakeholders in the health system who are our partners in all of this have the say about the go or no-go parts of the contract.

The honourable member needs to be reminded one more time that any cost overruns are the responsibility of SmartHealth.

Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, this sounds so familiar. The minister knows the same thing was said with Connie Curran, go, no go, and we paid and paid and paid Connie Curran $4 million plus $800,000 in expenses.

My supplementary is to the minister. They are working on this contract. Offices have been set up. Will the minister, today, table the Royal Bank contract so the people of Manitoba can have the same assurance and can review it before we commit these horrendous funds to a computer project on behalf of the minister and the Royal Bank of Canada?

Mr. McCrae: As I did the other day, Mr. Speaker, I am going to refer the honourable member to the stakeholders and he can talk to those people who are our partners in the smart card system that we are putting together in Manitoba. I ask him to refer to the Manitoba Society of Seniors, to the Manitoba Association of Registered Nurses, to the Consumers' Association of Manitoba, the Manitoba Association of Rights and Liberties, the College of Physicians and Surgeons, and on and on.

Let him talk to the stakeholders in the health system, including the consumers I work for. The honourable member, we are not sure who he works for, Mr. Speaker.

Rural Manitoba

Physician Requirements

Mr. Clif Evans (Interlake): Mr. Speaker, Arborg Hospital is currently looking at shutting down every third weekend because they cannot get an extra doctor in their community. They are left with only two doctors, when they had three.

Eriksdale presently is closing every third weekend and has been doing so for the last year.

Other communities, like Russell, Souris, Gladstone, only to mention a few, are all suffering the fact that there are no physicians for their areas.

Mr. Speaker, will the minister tell the House today what plans he has in place to encourage doctors to move to rural Manitoba to ensure that we do not become a two-tier system?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the honourable member raising this question. The honourable member for The Pas (Mr. Lathlin) raised a similar question the other day, and I laid out for the honourable member the various--[interjection] I did answer that question. I answered the question to the honourable member for The Pas the other day, laying out several initiatives that are brought forward, which are partly the result of the interim report of the Physician Resource Committee.

No one knows more than the honourable member or myself, I suggest, or the honourable member for The Pas, how important it is in our communities to have medical services to go along with the facilities that we have built up over many, many years.

So, with the continuing partnership of the College of Physicians and Surgeons, the Manitoba Medical Association, the communities themselves and, hopefully, honourable members opposite, we will resolve these physician resource issues.

Mr. Clif Evans: Mr. Speaker, the minister signed an Order-in-Council in February which changes the criteria for determining professional qualifications for foreign-trained professionals.

The minister has sent a letter to the physicians in Manitoba who have provisional billing numbers, encouraging them to practise in rural Manitoba, Mr. Speaker. Will the minister tell this House why nothing has been communicated to the hospitals that are trying to recruit these doctors?

Mr. McCrae: It would be quite incorrect to say nothing has been done with respect to the hospitals. My visits to hospitals in communities that have hospitals now exceed over 60 visits in this province, Mr. Speaker, to hospital facilities in communities that have an interest in health care issues. It is not correct to say what the honourable member has said.

Mr. Clif Evans: Mr. Speaker, will the minister then outline to this House what resources his department has put in place, is willing to further put in place, to assist the numerous rural communities and hospitals that are trying to recruit doctors, to simplify the process and help the health care system in rural Manitoba?

Mr. McCrae: Well, a lot more resources than any New Democratic government ever put into the coffers for Health in the history of this province.

Frank Maynard

Settlement Package

Ms. Avis Gray (Crescentwood): My question is for the Minister of Health.

When Frank Maynard, the former Deputy Minister of Health, left the employ of the Department of Health, can the minister tell us if he was given a settlement package upon his leaving?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): I assume that whatever arrangements are available to other people in the same position would have been made available to Mr. Maynard.

Ms. Gray: With a supplementary to the Minister of Health: Can the Minister of Health then indicate to this House today exactly what that settlement package was?--since in a Freedom of Information request dated a month ago, we received information that, in fact, we were denied that information.

Mr. Maynard was employed by the public. It should be a matter of Public Accounts, when the next Public Accounts document comes out. Can the minister then tell us how much was Mr. Maynard paid for his leaving as deputy minister of the Department of Health?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, I can just confirm for the member that there were no special arrangements whatsoever, no special severance or any other provisions. Whatever he was entitled to under his status as a civil service officer he would have been given, because I know that we were not required to make any provisions whatsoever for him.

Ms. Gray: Mr. Speaker, can the Premier then perhaps tell this House why we were not given that information when we asked for it through Freedom of Information, particularly since, when we asked for the CEO's contract at Red River Community College, that entire contract was provided to us? If it is very up front, as the Premier suggests, why were we not given that information when we asked for it through FOI?

Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, normally employment contracts are private information. There is no question about that. Any remuneration is always accounted for in the Public Accounts. It is shown what they get in black and white, so there is absolutely no opportunity for anybody to hide it.

Employment agreements, as in almost any other form of employment, are normally the private information between the employer and the employee. Certainly nothing that we were doing would be anything special for this individual. He would have gotten what he was entitled to as a public servant who served some 25 years in the government of Manitoba--no special provisions. That is all I can assure her.

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Treaty Land Entitlements

Interim Protection Zones

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Mr. Speaker, on February 6 the Minister of Northern Affairs (Mr. Praznik) wrote to the treaty land entitlement committee, stating that the provincial government would set aside interim protection zones for treaty land entitlement consideration.

I want to ask the Acting Minister of Northern Affairs if this is now government policy and what steps this government has taken to fulfill this promise made on February 6.

Hon. James Downey (Acting Minister of Northern Affairs): Mr. Speaker, we will be more than glad to take that question as notice. I do not have the information available.

Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Speaker, in light of the minister making that statement, can the acting minister then tell this House if lands are being identified and whether they have contacted the Swampy Cree Tribal Council, Shoal River First Nation, Indian Birch Band and Pine Creek Band to identify lands to be set aside for their treaty land entitlement?

Mr. Downey: Mr. Speaker, I, in responding to the member, just want to remind her--I will take the specifics of the question as notice, but I want her and the members of this House to know that it was this Premier (Mr. Filmon) and this government in the history of Manitoba that made the first land settlement in history in the northeast part of this province with the Island Lake communities, never before carried out by any government in this province, a record settlement with the First Nations of this province.

Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Speaker, I will ask that same minister if they will make a commitment today to meet with the bands that I just raised, the Swampy Cree Tribal Council Bands, to ensure that there is land set aside for them so they will have the opportunity for economic development in their area that they have been asking this government to do for some time now?

Mr. Downey: Mr. Speaker, again, I will take the specifics of the question as notice.

Not only on meetings but action as far as the First Nations of this province are concerned has clearly been demonstrated by this party and this government over the last eight years. We are proud of our record. You can bet that we would be more than prepared to meet with any of those individuals.

Clean Environment Commission

Elimination

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Environment.

Water is one of our most precious resources. A couple of years ago the Clean Environment Commission determined that it did not have enough data to approve the proposed diversion of the Assiniboine River. We have now learned that the government intends to scrap the Clean Environment Commission.

My question to the minister is: Would the minister tell Manitobans what changes to environmental assessment the government plans and whether there will be a balance between development and the environment, that is, sustainable development of our water resources?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment): Mr. Speaker, I will not let the member put on the record false information about the future of the Clean Environment Commission. He knows better than anybody else in this House that under the principles of sustainable development and the requirement that we are placing on all departments in this government, wherever they are involved with environment, to make sure that they take into account that there is an expanded role for environment, not a reduced one. He better quit misleading the people.

Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Speaker, given that we understand from a former member of the government benches that it wants the Assiniboine River diversion project to proceed, and in light of the government's plan for assessments to be unabashedly prodevelopment, is the scrapping of the Clean Environment Commission designed to allow quick passage in the backrooms of this project and such projects as the arena at The Forks--

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member has put his question.

Mr. Cummings: Mr. Speaker, that is unmitigated misleading of the public. It may make good politics in St. Johns, that is the only place I would presume, given that he must know his area reasonably well.

Mr. Speaker, the very fact that he would imply that somehow the Clean Environment Commission or any commission that would take on the responsibilities that it presently has would not acknowledge the paramount importance of protection and enhancement of water resources in this province--perhaps he thinks that the public would stand for that. Is that the way that New Democrats would run it? They did not even have a hearing when they built Limestone and he wants to stand up and talk about protection of the environment. He is a joke.

Point of Order

Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Speaker, the member may be quite exercised. I ask him to withdraw that reflection.

Mr. Speaker: I would like to thank the honourable member for St. Johns.

The honourable member for St. Johns, with his question.

Mr. Mackintosh: I ask the member, Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, to withdraw the comment.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. We have a point of order here.

You are asking for which comment to be withdrawn, sir?

Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Speaker, I am an honourable member like the other members in this Chamber. I am not a joke. I ask the member to withdraw that.

Mr. Speaker: Which is true. The honourable member does have a point of order.

Mr. Cummings: Mr. Speaker, that was certainly not a reflection on his person, but it was a reflection on his politics--

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. I am asking the honourable Minister of Environment to withdraw that remark. These are all honourable members in the Chamber.

Mr. Cummings: Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt that he is an honourable gentleman.

Mr. Speaker: I would like to thank the--

Some Honourable Members: Withdraw.

Mr. Speaker: That is a withdrawal.

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Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Speaker, even with this government's interferences in the Clean Environment Commission processes, the splitting of assessments that we now see and the ignoring of Clean Environment Commission decisions, I ask the minister what particular Clean Environment decision is of such concern to the government that it wants to scrap the Clean Environment Commission? They are scrapping it, Mr. Speaker. His people say so--

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member has put his question.

Mr. Cummings: Mr. Speaker, let me reiterate that I would suggest there is probably no better example before all of us today than the very example of the disagreement between the City of Winnipeg and the Rosser landfill being proposed by BFI.

Where the Clean Environment Commission has a number of responsibilities that go beyond simply environmental regulation, that in fact the very questions that the City is asking, the questions that the member is asking and his colleagues about how we will capably deal with such a complex question, it simply begs a question about the expansion of the role of a commission to deal with more than just environmental matters or just economic matters. It talks about a sustainable development concept, an approach that is fair and reasonable and provides for jobs and the environment in this province.

Budget

Revenue Transfers

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Finance.

This budget has shown a surplus of $48 million in large part because of a special one-time transfer of $145 million from a Lotteries fund. We note that in addition, the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson) has transferred $30 million of revenue from 1994 to 1995 including as is shown in the estimates of revenue, the Manitoba Mineral Resources Limited, Manitoba Development Corporation and A.E. McKenzie Limited. Those monies were received in 1994, but he is showing them as being received in 1995.

Can the minister explain why he has transferred '94 revenue to '95 to contribute to his surplus figure?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, I am glad to see that the member for Brandon East is taking the time to go through the budget in some detail and to acknowledge that there will be a $48-million surplus in 1995-96, the first balanced budget in Manitoba since 1972-73.

That revenue he is referring to is money that will flow from the finalization of the sale of Manitoba Mineral Resources, from the finalization of the sale of A.E. McKenzie Seeds and from a dividend from the Manitoba Development Corporation.

Upon finalization and completion and the winding up of those various entities, Mr. Speaker, that revenue will flow in 1995-96.

Mr. Leonard Evans: Mr. Speaker, McKenzie Seeds was sold this last year, this current fiscal year, and we were told monies were being received. Now you are telling us there are no monies received from McKenzie Seeds in 1994-95. Yet, another member of this government has indicated that those monies were received by the government of Manitoba.

So can the minister explain the contradiction between what he is telling me today and the minister responsible for A.E. McKenzie told us a couple of months ago?

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Mr. Stefanson: There is absolutely no contradiction, Mr. Speaker, and I did not leave the impression that there is any contradiction. Those sales are completed and have been completed but in terms of the winding up and the transferring of the funds to us, it will occur in 1995-96.

If the member for Brandon East looks at our 1994 Quarterly Report that we just tabled today, he will see in this year that we are coming in with a deficit of $218 million as opposed to the original deficit of $296 million that was projected at budget time, some $80-million improvement because our revenues are doing better and the whole economy is performing better. There are more jobs in Manitoba and so on.

So our performance in 1994-95 is significantly better than originally projected. We have the opportunity to wind up those entities and to transfer those funds in 1995-96 and balance the budget here in Manitoba for the first time in 23 years and make sure it stays balanced from this day forward in Manitoba.

Mr. Leonard Evans: Well, it is obvious that the minister is taking great liberty with how he transfers funds, because the people of this province were told that they received the money from McKenzie Seeds in '94-95, and that money should have been registered as that type of revenue received.

It is obvious a sleight of hand is going on here. It is a shell game, just like the VLT transfers, a shell game, and we all know it.

I would like to ask the minister, Mr. Speaker, is it this government's policy to continue to sell capital assets, provincial government assets, to bolster its revenues or to be able to balance its books in the future such as, for example, the sale--God forbid that this government is re-elected--of MTS.

Mr. Stefanson: I know that it really pains the member for Brandon East to see a surplus here in Manitoba because of the kind of track record and the kind of deficits that we saw under their administration from 1981 till 1988, and you need look no further, Mr. Speaker, than the budget that they introduced in 1988 that had a $334-million deficit. It was so bad that one of their own members voted against it and defeated them. Thank God for that day for the good of Manitoba's economy and for the fiscal management of this province.

Whenever it makes sense for government to get out of a function that they should not be in, where the private sector can perform better, more efficiently, and provide that service to Manitobans, we will do that every time when that makes sense, but we will also maintain our commitments and our priorities for health, education and support to families in this province.

Capital Projects

Cadham Provincial Laboratory

Ms. Avis Gray (Crescentwood): My question is for the Minister of Health.

Can the Minister of Health tell us why the--I see the Cadham Provincial Laboratory expansion is again showing up in architectural planning as it was a number of years ago.

Can the Minister of Health tell us why that particular project has not moved to the section under approved for construction?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, the various schedules in the capital budget have got the architects and all of the facilities and the management of those facilities and the government terribly busy trying to keep up with the amount of expenditure this government is willing to make on capital projects. That as much as anything else may very well account for what the honourable member is asking about today.

There are discussions and negotiations that go on throughout the piece, especially the earlier parts of the development of a capital project. The decisions made at the early stages of the development of a project are very, very important, because it is hard, once you have a building half built or a project half completed, to change your mind at that stage and do it differently.

There have indeed been negotiations leading to what you see in the capital Health program for the province of Manitoba, and those negotiations and planning account as much for the passage of time as anything else that the honourable member might want to bring forward.

Mr. Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.