LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF
Tuesday, April 12, 1994
The House met at 1:30 p.m.
PRAYERS
ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
PRESENTING PETITIONS
APM Incorporated Remuneration and
Pharmacare and Home Care
Reinstatement
Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood):
Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of George Stevenson, K.
Barnwell, J. Lowies and others requesting the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba
urge the Premier (Mr. Filmon) to personally step in and order the repayment of
the $4 million paid to Connie Curran and her firm APM Incorporated and consider
cancelling the recent cuts to the Pharmacare and Home Care programs.
Mr. Conrad Santos (Broadway):
Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of D. Fundytus, C. Fundytus,
Patricia Lucas and others requesting the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba urge
the Premier to personally step in and order the repayment of the $4 million
paid to Connie Curran and her firm APM Incorporated and consider cancelling the
recent cuts to the Pharmacare and Home Care programs.
TABLING OF REPORTS
Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and
Attorney General): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table, pursuant
to The Regulations Act, a copy of each regulation registered with the Registrar
of Regulations since the regulations were tabled in this House in December of
1992.
Also, I am
pleased to table the Annual Report 1992‑93 of the Criminal Injuries
Compensation Board; the Annual Report 1992‑93 of the Seizure and
Impoundment Registry; and the 1992 Annual Report of the Manitoba Human Rights
Commission.
Introduction of Guests
Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral
Questions, may I direct the attention of honourable members to the gallery
where we have with us this afternoon from the
Also this
afternoon, from the
On
behalf of all honourable members, I would like to welcome you here this
afternoon.
* (1335)
ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Community‑Based Health Care
Government Commitment
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the
Opposition): Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Premier
(Mr. Filmon).
Last year, we
saw under the government's policies reduction in services to patients in
hospitals and reductions in services in the home care field in
We have
learned that there has in fact been a reduction in support to community clinics
and I would like to ask the Premier:
What is the actual reduction? Why
is the reduction taking place in our community health clinics, and what is the
impact on patient care?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health):
Mr. Speaker, the activities of the government in the area of health care
have been indeed to enhance services to our fellow Manitobans throughout
The
honourable member will also note the construction or the ongoing construction or
already constructed over 500 units of personal care in the
Mr. Doer: The minister did not
answer the question. He did not answer
our questions on Monday. He did not
answer the questions on Friday on hospital care.
I asked the
minister: Why did they reduce the
support for community‑based health clinics, and what is the impact on
patient care? I would like to ask the
minister a specific question: What will
be the impact on counsellors working in community clinics that are providing
preventative health services, AIDS education, and what will be the impact on
people, for example, working with HIV patients and AIDS patients in our community‑based
clinics?
Mr. McCrae: Mr. Speaker, as we
deal with the budget which is going to be coming down soon, we will have lots
of opportunity to discuss the various services provided in the community or by
the government in the community as well as services provided in institutions by
the government. The honourable member
will see that, unlike what was about to happen, had there not been a change in
the way we deliver health services, the honourable member, if we stayed with
what he is suggesting and his colleagues, that is to go back to the way we once
had it and ask the people what to do next, we would be behind some five years.
What we have
done is we have consulted over 13,000 Manitobans with respect to what they want
in health care. Those are the people who
deliver health care services and those are the people who receive them. Those are the people we have already
consulted so there is no point going out promising to consult, because that has
been done and is still being done. So
the honourable member will have ample opportunity to raise questions about the
individual programs of government and in the community at the appropriate time.
Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, we used
to get denials of cutbacks from the former minister, but at least he knew what
was going on in his department. This
minister has not answered one question in three days.
Mr. Speaker,
I would like to ask the Premier (Mr. Filmon) this question: Why did the former minister maintain zero
funding to the community clinics and why has this minister already notified the
community health clinics in Manitoba that they are going to get a reduction in
support from the provincial government, and what will be the impact to patients
that go from community clinics and doctors on salary to walk‑in clinics
and into the hospitals? What will be the
impact of your policies?
Mr. McCrae: The honourable
member should remember that the Manitoba Nurses'
* (1340)
Canada‑Manitoba Infrastructure
Works Agreement
Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson):
Mr. Speaker, northerners were extremely concerned when the first
announcements were made last week in terms of infrastructure. Northern communities received only three out
of 131 projects for a total of 0.4 percent of the initial allocation.
They are even
more concerned now following comments made by the First Minister that, quite
frankly, are nothing more than a throwback from the 1950s.
I would like
to ask the First Minister: When will he
recognize the fact that he as First Minister has an obligation to fairness to
all areas of the province? When will the
First Minister take action to ensure that northerners are not ignored in the
remaining intakes for the infrastructure program?
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):
Mr. Speaker, the member for‑‑
An Honourable Member:
The whole province.
Mr. Filmon: If the member for
The Pas (Mr. Lathlin) would like to answer the question, he can answer it. Do you have an answer, Oscar?
Mr. Speaker,
the member began to answer his own question in his preamble when he talked
about initial allocation. This is a
program that does involve some $205 million of spending by the three levels of
government in
In addition
to that, of course, we, as a province, chose to have involved representatives
of communities throughout
So
the input received was one of through all levels of government and a true
partnership exercise.
If the member
opposite is suggesting that we somehow should overrule the good legitimate
advice and politically interfere with the process, then he is wrong. He is absolutely wrong, Mr. Speaker.
That is not
the way to do it. This is a better
process and a process that we believe will result in allocations that will
satisfy needs throughout this province.
As I said earlier, all the allocations have not yet been made, and I
just invite him to participate in a positive way instead of talking about
political interference with a trilevel process.
Mr. Ashton: Mr. Speaker, the
Premier cannot have it both ways. He
says one thing blaming northern M.P.s, MLAs and municipalities for not lobbying,
and today he turns around and says a totally different thing.
I would like
to table some letters, Mr. Speaker. I
have a letter to the Minister of Finance‑‑
Point of Order
Mr. Filmon: On a point of order,
Mr. Speaker, I did not say anything different today than I said in the article
in the paper. I would continue to be
critical of the fact that nobody has heard from the Liberal member, federal
member on this issue‑‑[interjection] And MLAs, Mr. Speaker. They did not get involved in terms of letting
their municipal representatives know about the urgent priority‑‑
Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable First Minister does not have a
point of order. It is clearly a dispute
over the facts.
Point of Order
Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin Flon):
Mr. Speaker, if the First Minister would simply check with his
ministers, he would know that what he just said was completely false‑‑
Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for sure does not have
a point of order. Again, it is a dispute
over the facts.
*
* *
Mr. Ashton: Mr. Speaker, I would
like to table some letters. I have a
letter to the Minister of Finance, a copy which also was sent to the federal
minister Lloyd Axworthy supporting the Burntwood trailer park. It was written this year.
I also have a
letter that was sent to the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson), the Minister
of Northern Affairs (Mr. Praznik), Elijah Harper, M.P. for Churchill and Lloyd
Axworthy, supporting the inclusion of Northern Affairs communities for infrastructure. I even have a response, an acknowledgement of
the letter I sent to the Minister of Northern Affairs that was sent to me on
March 25.
My question
is: When will the Premier stop playing this
kind of politics and ensure that northern communities are not subjected to
1950s pork barrel politics and the real infrastructure needs in those
communities are met under the infrastructure program?
Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, the
only people who are playing politics with this issue are sitting in the NDP
benches in this Legislature.
The fact of
the matter is, Mr. Speaker, that I have been advised today that there were only
two applications from NACC communities for this particular infrastructure program. There have been hundreds of applications from
communities throughout
Mr. Ashton: Mr. Speaker, when
will the First Minister talk to his own minister who told our members that the
existing capital applications in Northern Affairs communities would be included
for consideration for infrastructure?
Canada‑Manitoba Infrastructure
Works Agreement
Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson):
I will ask the minister one final question since the minister is
concerned about contact.
Perhaps in
terms of doing one's jobs, will the minister ensure that the Minister of Rural
Development (Mr. Derkach), who was phoned by the mayor of the city of Thompson,
the third largest city in Manitoba, last Wednesday, finally gets a response to
his phone call? Is that the way this
government treats northerners, Mr. Speaker‑‑
Mr. Speaker:
Order, please. The honourable
member has put his question.
Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Northern Affairs):
Mr. Speaker, the member for Thompson should put away the self‑righteous
indignation because we have gone through a first round. There were two applications specifically for
the program from NACC communities. The
municipalities in northern
I would also
point out to these very self‑righteous members that it was this
government that put electricity into the last community in
* (1345)
Co‑management Agreement
Mr. Paul Edwards (Leader of the Second Opposition):
Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Environment.
This morning
I was visited by two senior officials from the Ontario government, who had just
come from a meeting with senior officials with the minister's department, and
they briefed me on a Shoal Lake Watershed Committee agreement that is, they
think, perhaps going to be ratified by the five First Nations and the Province
of Ontario even in the next six weeks.
That
agreement sets up a committee between the five bands and the
My question
to the minister: Why is
Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment):
Mr. Speaker, I do not know if the member was at the same briefing that
our officials were at or not, or if he was getting a different phone call than
what I have been receiving, because Ontario explicitly excluded Manitoba from
these discussions until they had developed a better understanding with their
First Nations people. I must admit that
it was to some disappointment and frustration on my part that we were not
involved from the beginning.
I can tell
you unequivocally that it was
Mr. Edwards: Mr. Speaker, that
completely contradicts the information which has come from the
Mr. Speaker,
let me table a draft version of that agreement supplied to me by the
Why did the
Mr. Cummings: Mr. Speaker, either
the Leader of the Second Opposition totally misunderstands the statements that
were coming from
The
* (1350)
Interestingly
enough, I believe the genesis of this approach goes back to a meeting that I
asked for, and met with the leaders in Ontario, then Minister of Environment
Ruth Grier, to talk about the fact that we needed a basin‑wide management
plan which was first initiated by our two Premiers meeting and saying that was
what they wanted to do, establish a basin‑wide plan based on the
principles of sustainable development.
Mr. Speaker,
they chose to start by reaching an understanding with their own First Nations
people, and
Mr. Edwards: Mr. Speaker, the
agreement itself says that it was preferable for both parties to have included
the
Will the
minister table a letter, anything, proving that in fact he did put it to the
Mr. Cummings: A draft management
plan was developed by the Manitoba Department of Environment in conjunction
with the
Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable Leader of the second
opposition party, you have already had your opportunity.
Canada‑Manitoba Infrastructure
Works Agreement
Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas):
Mr. Speaker, my questions are directed to the First Minister (Mr.
Filmon).
We are witnessing
once again how this Premier is once again ignoring parts of the province in
order to practice his politics. This is
totally unacceptable and is certainly not in the best interests of this
province.
All northern
MLAs did their job, contrary to what the Premier is saying, working with local
organizations, with community councils, town councils to lay out priorities for
the infrastructure program. Is the
Premier not aware of the rate of unemployment that exists up north?
My question
is: Why is this Premier not doing his
job and lobbying the federal government to put areas with the most need highest
on the priority list, and why is this Premier ignoring the North, anyway?
Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Northern Affairs):
Mr. Speaker, this government has not ignored the North. As I told members opposite earlier, there are
many projects. We have done a lot of
work in the North.
If you look
at the initiatives that this government has taken, my predecessor, the Deputy
Premier, the work in settling outstanding issues on Northern Flood, on treaty
land entitlement, we have moved farther on many of these than any government
before in the history of the
Canada‑Manitoba Infrastructure
Works Agreement
Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas):
Mr. Speaker, I remember the Minister of Northern Affairs after the last
provincial election telling this Chamber about how the North did not know how
to vote. I am reminded of that same
thing this afternoon.
Mr.
Speaker, my second question is again directed to the First Minister.
Why was it a
priority of this Premier to spend $40 million on paving one road in
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):
Mr. Speaker, the member has a very short memory or else really is
deliberately attempting to not put forward the accurate picture.
This
government has not only settled with a number of the communities on the
Northern Flood Agreement‑‑and we are talking hundreds of millions
of dollars‑‑this government is the first government to settle a
treaty land entitlement with the Island Lake group of communities, a
considerable investment in the North.
This government has put into construction for $117 million, the North
Central Transmission Line to service seven communities in the North. This government has put $55 million into the
new zinc pressure leach facility at Flin Flon to ensure the viability of that
community.
Mr. Speaker,
this government has done more in six years than we had done in 16 years under
New Democratic administration in the North.
That group was all talk and no action, and that is exactly what they
represent even to this day as they stand up piously and try and take credit for
things that they never did in the North.
Mr. Lathlin:
Mr. Speaker, could I ask the Premier one more question?
Mr. Speaker:
You sure could.
Mr. Lathlin: That question
is: For the remainder of the program,
will the First Minister tell the House what priority he is prepared to give or
place on those projects that will be submitted from northern communities?
Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, the
member has already been told that there were only two NACC community projects
that were put in. In addition to that,
the member has been told that there is a process that involves representation
from MAUM, including the president of MAUM who is a councillor from
Thompson. That is a person from the
North who is part of the decision‑making process. That process will prevail.
* (1355)
Grain Transportation Proposal
Method of Payment
Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (
Since the
topic of changing the method of payment to pay the producer was introduced,
farmers have many concerns. They raised
these concerns with the government about what the cost would be to them. The previous Minister of Agriculture, even
though studies said that this would be an expense to Manitobans, supported the
change to the method of payment.
I want to ask
this new Minister of Agriculture what his position is. Does he support pay the producer, even though
the interim report indicates that
Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Agriculture):
Madam Speaker, the issue that‑‑[interjection] Mr. Speaker, I
am just having trouble in this politically correct world. You know, sometimes your chair is occupied by
somebody else.
Mr. Speaker,
the issue that the honourable member for
There is a
divergence of opinion with respect to how that payment should be made. If she is asking for a position that I
favour, I in fact favour that the payments should be made direct to the
producer acknowledging that there are problems particularly within
But, Mr.
Speaker, my biggest concern is that while we in the grain industry continue
debating this point, that long established support for the movement of grain
known as the Crow benefit is in fact disappearing. It was started by the previous
administration, which I acknowledge, and in the last budget brought down by the
Honourable Paul Martin. He took another
$36 million out of that agriculture support program. So it is with some urgency that I urge my
colleagues as I did on Monday that we should resolve the issue and make sure
that some of the benefit that we enjoyed as grain producers be in fact in the
hands of the grain producers that grow the grain.
Ms. Wowchuk: It is unfortunate
that the federal Liberals chose to continue to dismantle the Crow benefit even
though they promised not to. But I would
ask the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Enns), does he support changing to pay the
producer even though it is going to cost
I ask him,
does he support the change to pay the producer or is he proposing that it stay
as it is and keep that money where it is‑‑
Mr. Speaker:
Order, please. The honourable
member has put her question.
* (1400)
Mr. Enns: I appreciate that
the word "change" drives fear into the hearts of honourable members
opposite, particularly on the New Democratic Party benches. Let me assure her of something: change there will be.
This program
has been identified with some legitimacy as being unfair in terms of our
growing major trading partner, namely the American market, and Mr. Goodale has
acknowledged that he will make changes to this program. I am only urging him to make them in the
interest of all producers, and I cannot see quite frankly any other way as we
sort out some of the other problems that the bulk of those monies be put in the
hands of the producers who will be faced with higher transportation costs in
getting their feed grains, principally barley, to market.
Compensation Package
Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (
Mr. Speaker:
Order, please. The honourable
member has put her question.
Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Agriculture):
Mr. Speaker, one should always look at every challenge to change as an
opportunity, and there are in fact the opportunity of thousands of jobs to be created
in the expansion of the livestock industry if we concentrate. Instead of putting our energies to trying to
export something that is worth three and a half or four cents a pound, let us
concentrate our efforts in exporting something that is worth a dollar or $2 a
pound in the area of pork or in beef.
Transcona‑Springfield School
Division
Layoffs‑‑Teaching
Positions
Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona):
Mr. Speaker, in the last session of the Legislature the previous
Minister of Education stated that her department would review the funding
shortage for the Transcona‑Springfield School Division since the division
essentially had no reserve. Now we have
learned that the division is going to cut some 30 jobs, including teaching
positions. It will be announced later
today.
My
question is for the Minister of Education.
Can the
Minister of Education explain what action he has taken to help the Transcona‑Springfield
School Division, considering the promises that the previous minister made, and what
options, either verbal or written, has this minister given to division No. 12?
Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister of Education and
Training): Mr. Speaker, I am not aware of promises that
a previous minister has made.
Let me say,
with respect to the announced funding that came forward in late January, the
impact of 2.6 percent reduction was shared by way of equalization formula and
indeed funding formula across all the divisions and districts across this
province. This government has chosen not
to rush in with ad hoc measures like the former government did to drive
basically every division off the formula, and instead has tried to practice the
purity around the funding formula.
Naturally,
Mr. Speaker, by coincidence some of the divisions, who of course had done very
well under the formula over the first two years, find themselves maybe below
the average now with some negative impact.
That is the very nature of the law of averages.
Beyond that,
we are trying to look at which divisions are going to be impacted most
severely, and we are trying to find a way, if possible, to deal with one or two
of those divisions.
Mr. Reid: Mr. Speaker, this
was the same promise that was made last year, and still to this point nothing
has happened.
Can the
Minister of Education explain how the loss of these teaching positions is going
to improve or help the education of the children of the Transcona‑Springfield
communities?
Mr. Manness: Mr. Speaker, I do
not need to stand here to answer that question, because if the member is saying
that the provincial government should take over the responsibility then of all
school divisions to make these types of decisions and therefore be answerable
to that type of question, I would say that would not be in keeping with what the
people of Manitoba want.
We provide
funding to the tune of $750 million across the
We
are trying though, with respect to one or two of them, to find some area of
relief.
Mr. Reid: Mr. Speaker, since there
are going to be less teachers in classrooms, can this Minister of Education
explain to the people of Transcona how it is fair to give a 7 percent increase
to the private elite schools of this province while at the same time cutting
back nearly 5 percent in funding to the public education system in our
province? How is that fair to my
community and the other communities of the province? How is this going‑‑
Mr. Speaker:
Order, please. The honourable
member has put his question.
Mr. Manness: Mr. Speaker, the
last person in the world that should stand and ask a question about fairness in
policy is somebody from the NDP party.
With respect
to increased funding to the independent schools, as I indicated on a number of
occasions, enrollments are increasing within the independent school side. Indeed, as we fund only two‑thirds of
the per‑pupil cost in the independent school system as compared to the
public school system, and because there is a higher call for places in the
independent school system, we naturally as a government have to provide an
increase in funding to take into account that increased demand.
Manitoba Lotteries Corporation
Lease Agreement
Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister charged with the
administration of The
With respect
to that document, the space was first leased in 1985 by the Western Canada
Lottery Corporation. Subsequent to that,
additional space was taken on in 1987 in two different sizes, one by the
Western Canada Lottery Corporation, one by the Manitoba Lotteries
Corporation. In 1991, by agreement
between the partners of the Western Canada Lottery Corporation, all activities
of Western Canada Lottery Corporation housed in that space were then taken over
by Manitoba Lotteries Corporation, and the space is leased until July of 2001.
Youth Crime
Prevention Programs
Mr. Gary Kowalski (The Maples):
Mr. Speaker, I rise for the first time in this Assembly to ask a
question of the Minister of Education.
I recently
asked young Manitobans for their input into how we can cut down on youth
crime. Over the weekend I held a forum
where about 60 young people, including several young offenders, attended. The message I received was that this
government is putting too much emphasis on punishment and not doing enough to
attack the root causes of youth crime.
Education cuts were specifically singled out as one of the causes. They told me that the large class sizes and a
decrease in extracurricular activities lead to a sense of isolation. That is one reason why they join gangs.
Given the
direct link between youth crime and education, will the Minister of Education
reconsider his 2.6 percent cut to public school funding?
Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister of Education and
Training): Mr. Speaker, I welcome the question from the
member for The Maples and his representation on educational issues over the
course of the session.
I am not
aware of all of the contributions that were made by those in attendance at the
forum held by the member opposite, but certainly I can think of an article that
was in the Free Press, I believe it was yesterday or at least on the weekend, and
there were some young people who were calling for much greater discipline in
order and structure within the classroom.
I do not know if they were the same people who were in attendance at the
event hosted by the member or not, but let me say if funding is the issue, I do
not know of a community, I do not know of a nation on the face of the earth
that spends more on education than Canada.
Within that context, I do not know of a province, other than maybe two,
that spend more on a per capita basis than the
I say, Mr.
Speaker, as the community calls forward with respect to education reform, all
the representation made to me with respect to violence in the classroom is not
in any way associated with the issue of funding.
Mr. Kowalski: Well, I think the
students who are in the classroom know better than anyone else what is
happening in the classroom.
* (1410)
Prevention Programs
Mr. Gary Kowalski (The Maples):
Mr. Speaker, cutbacks in the departments of Health, Family Services and
Education have added an enormous burden to our justice system. The elimination of Student Social Allowance
is only one example of a cutback which has an impact on youth crime.
My question
is for the Minister of Justice. Will
this government provide funding to these departments to address the root causes
of youth crime?
Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister of Education and
Training): Mr. Speaker, in six budgets this government
has put an extra $500 million, one‑half billion dollars into Health. We put an additional several hundred million
dollars into Family Services. Into
Education, we put an additional $250 million in the course of six budgets. Nobody, nobody can attack this government for
not putting enough funding within all the areas mentioned by the member for The
Maples. This is not a funding issue that
we are talking about.
Youth Crime
Prevention Programs‑‑Co‑ordination
Mr. Gary Kowalski (The Maples):
We could talk about dollar amounts or percentages which is more
real. Mr. Speaker, addressing the real
causes of youth crime will only come about co‑ordinating delivery of
services to some people. Some of the
young people I spoke with on the weekend felt that they were lost in a maze of
government departments, each one having a different responsibility.
My question
is for the First Minister: Has the First
Minister asked his Ministers of Health, Education, Justice and Family Services
to co‑ordinate the delivery of services to our young people so that the
needs of
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):
Mr. Speaker‑‑[interjection]
Mr. Speaker:
Order, please. The honourable
First Minister has the floor.
Mr. Filmon: The question of co‑ordination
is one that is an ongoing issue that we are looking at to ensure that we have
better co‑ordination, and Human Services Committee of Cabinet will
address that issue as we proceed through the course of this coming year.
Mr. Speaker,
I just want the member for The Maples to understand that in all areas of the
social safety net there has been not only increases in total dollars being
spent, but an increase in the percentage of budget that is allocated to that
area. For instance, in the area of
Family Services it has gone from 10 percent to over 12 percent of our entire
provincial budget. In Education, it has
gone from 17.2 percent to 18.7 percent of the entire provincial budget. In Health, it has gone from 31.6 to 33.9
percent of the entire provincial budget.
This government has not only allocated more total dollars, but made it a
greater priority of all of our provincial spending in every one of those areas.
Mr. Speaker,
I would say that the member opposite ought to come to this House wanting to
ensure that we do more with the dollars that we are spending and giving
creative ways of doing that. As a result
of simply going into his community meetings and talking about cutbacks, which
is not factual, which is not accurate, then he should correct them. [interjection]
Oh, yes. No, that is not helpful to go
and preach cutbacks when none exist.
Education System
Consultations‑‑Youth
Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson):
Mr. Speaker, it is the students of
I ask the
Minister of Education, why is he ignoring youth? Why is he not including young people as
partners in education, along with their parents, in his consultation process
that he has initiated for this session?
Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister of Education and
Training): Mr. Speaker, I am not excluding students. I think that was the essence of the
question. I have met with a number of
young people, both formally and informally, but ultimately those of us who were
elected in positions to make policy and government decisions, whether indeed
provincially elected or elected locally as trustees to boards, are forced under
the restraints and constraints that are in place to make certain decisions.
I find it
unfortunate that obviously the local school division senses that it has no alternative
but to arm members opposite to try and make this a political spectacle by
trying to force out more funding through questioning in this House.
I have tried
to find a solution to a very real problem with respect to School Division No.
12, and I will continue to try and find one, but it has to be in keeping with
the same formula that applies to all the 195,000 students in the public school
system, because be darned if this government is going to end up in a situation
like the government opposite.
Mr. Speaker,
when we came to government, there was a funding formula in place and there were
two school divisions left on it‑‑two. Everybody else had been grandfathered. Everybody else had more money thrown at them
when they had a little problem. If you
have got a little problem, we will shovel a little bit more money at you. That is not a fairness and a purity that this
government embraces. Maybe the members
opposite want that type of government, but this government does not.
Mr. Speaker:
Time for Oral Questions has expired.
* * *
Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment):
Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Second Opposition (Mr. Edwards)
challenged me to table my phone calls. I
would like to table a letter as a result of a phone call last summer.
Mr. Speaker: Does the Minister of
Environment (Mr. Cummings) have leave to table said document in response to a
question? Do the members want it? They want it.
Yes, you can just table the document.
NONPOLITICAL STATEMENTS
New Year Celebration, Laotian, Cambodian,
Sri Lankan and Tamil Communities
Mr. Jack Reimer (Niakwa):
Do I have leave to make a nonpolitical statement?
Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable
member for Niakwa have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]
Mr. Reimer: Mr. Speaker, I am
delighted to draw the attention of the members of this House to the forthcoming
celebration of the New Year in the Laotian, the Cambodian, the Sri Lankan and
the Tamil communities.
It is a time
of great pride for these Manitobans as they mark the continuation of their
ancient and honourable cultures.
Manitobans
deeply respect the rights of all cultures to maintain and observe their customs
and their traditions. This respect has
strengthened our communities, raised our self‑esteem and created an
unshakeable foundation for our diverse multicultural society.
While each
ethnocultural community may have its own unique or customary method of
inaugurating a new year, we do find many similarities. Perhaps the most common theme between these
observances is the wish for peace, health and harmony in our coming months.
As we look at
our current world events, these aspirations take on a very poignant meaning for
Manitobans of all origins. Manitobans of
Laotian, Cambodian, Sri Lankan and Tamil heritage can understand the sorrow and
the pain associated with living in nations which do not cherish the concepts of
freedom and multiculturalism as Canadians do.
This understanding adds an extra strength and spirit of joy to our
celebrations in this community.
As the
Laotian, Cambodian, Sri Lankan and Tamil communities begin their festivities, I
ask the members of this House to join with me in wishing them a very prosperous
and a very happy new year.
Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable
member for
Ms. Becky Barrett (
As the member
for Niakwa (Mr. Reimer) stated, these individuals are indeed fortunate, I am
sure they would all agree, to be in a country where they are free to celebrate
their holidays without fear of repercussion or repression.
I again
congratulate them and wish them well in their new years and hope that there
continues to be, in the province of Manitoba and the nation of Canada, the understanding
and acceptance of all ethnic groups, all cultures and all people from
throughout the world so we can continue to be a haven for the people who come
to us for health and prosperity. Thank
you.
75th Anniversary, Opening of
Shoal
Mr. Speaker:
Does the honourable First Minister have leave to make a nonpolitical
statement? [agreed]
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):
I want to make a nonpolitical statement with respect to this being the 75th
anniversary of the opening of the aqueduct to
As an
engineer, I remember learning in my classes about this project as being one
that was touted in engineering journals throughout our country and
Here was a
city,
* (1420)
They found a
source of water that was so ideal for the application of municipal water that
it did not need any treatment in any respect.
In fact, up until many years later, it did not even require anything
such as chlorination or, eventually, fluoridation which it today receives. It is not softened in any way. It falls within the range of ideal softness
of water supply that you want in a municipal system. It did not require any major chemical
treatment or analysis. All it required
was just a course screening, and the water flew by gravity so it did not
require any energy in order to transmit that water 100 miles to the city, the
then burgeoning growing city of
Mr. Speaker,
I think it is well that we have marked this occasion by recognizing the
visionary leadership that people in public life brought to the formation of our
city in making decisions such as this. I
am happy to stand up on a nonpolitical basis and make mention of that today.
Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable
member for Flin Flon have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]
Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin Flon):
Mr. Speaker, I would also like to join the Premier on this auspicious
occasion and mark the 75th anniversary of the construction of the
aqueduct. I want to acknowledge the importance
of that decision some 75 years ago. It
was a good and a thoughtful and a farsighted decision on behalf of the citizens
of this city and, obviously, it has been good not only for individuals, but for
our community collectively.
I think we
recognize that the engineering feat behind this is followed and modelled on
something that the Romans did 2,000 years ago.
So I do not think that the engineering‑‑and I know that the
Premier referenced his own profession‑‑it is not the engineering
that I think we should be commending so much as the willingness of a community
to do something of that scale that was that farsighted, that was going to serve
us for so many years.
It strikes me
as something that is more and more difficult for governments to do, Mr.
Speaker, to do projects of that scale that have that long‑reaching a
significance, and we should remind ourselves continually that there is a method
to that madness, that we should never shy away from doing the project that
needs to be done regardless of the circumstances, how difficult it may seem,
how expensive, if we know in the long run it is going to serve us.
Mr. Speaker,
we on this side join with other members of the House. We want to congratulate those visionaries,
those people who were prepared, perhaps put their political careers on the line
to make a decision that was in the interests of the long‑term
benefit. We need to do that more and
more with more limited resources at our disposal. Hopefully, we will have the foresight that
our forefathers did.
Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable
member for
Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (
It is
interesting as we look through historical activities in provinces and in our
nation, and look back on what turns out to be some very positive things for our
society and know that those positive decisions were, at that time, quite
controversial in nature. When we first
decided, for example, to build Canadian parks or to in fact describe land that
should be Canadian park lands in a nation which was so vast and so
underdeveloped, those who tried to do that kind of development were looked at
with, quite frankly, strange concepts.
The questions that were asked of the day were, why in a nation like
Yet, today we
know that had we not designated that land for parks the parks would not
exist. Now with great difficulty we are
trying to expand our park land. We are
trying to expand that park land because we are under pressure from development
which has already taken place, activities which have already taken place.
The same is
true for those who said 75 years ago we should bring our water to the city of
What is very
interesting of course is to go back and read studies of the city of
We have a
situation in which those who had such vision 75 years ago to realize that this
would be a great and exciting city, and the city would require the construction
of this aqueduct, and this province would benefit from such a clean source of
water is something that we should not forget.
We should
indeed challenge everyone in this room and all those who hold political office
at all levels of this nation, and at the municipal level as well, to be
visionary, to say every now and then take a leap of faith, justify to yourself,
to your great‑grandchildren or your great‑great‑grandchildren
that the idea you are fermenting and you are debating and you are discussing is
not for now. It is for the future. That is what these individuals should receive
tribute for.
Thank
you for being there 75 years ago so that we today benefit from what you have
accomplished.
Introduction of Guests
Mr. Speaker: Just prior to Orders
of the Day, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the
gallery to my left where we are graced with the presence this afternoon of Earl
Backman who is the Clerk for the City of
On
behalf of all honourable members, I would like to welcome you here this
afternoon, sir.